Did Putin Stage a False Flag Coup in Turkey?

Remeber Putins strong stance against Turkey?

So I kept track of the Turkish coup on RT.


-Turkey was in near economic crisis due to being cut off by the Russians.
-Putin Erdogan meet
-Coup happens
-Coup blamed on US and is used as an excuse to oust US presence
-The 2 pilots who shot down the SU-27 we arrested for veing collaborators of the coup.
-Durring Erdogans purge, it was announced on RT that trade relations would be restored
-Gas Pipeline project would be restored
-Air travel to Turkey to be opened.
-Produce ban lifted.

I know all of this is circumstantial evidence. But as Trey Gowdy once said "There is no such thing as coincidence in politics"

My suspicions grew when I read about the 2 pilots beying arrested.

It was reinforced when I read that even while Erdogan was arresting people by the thousands in the streets, trying to reintroduce the death penalty, Putin, at that time of politicial unrest announced that tourism would resume. Strange time to announce it. It was like he was waiting for Erdogan to fulfill his end of the deal before restoring relations.

Now after the coup and ousting US presence, Erdogan is being super nice to Russia. Allowing them unfettered acces to their air field when before they shot down a Russian jet for crossing Turkish border briefly for safety.

The progress of events in my option is too much to be a coincidence.

Now Russia has Turkey fighting for them in Syria. Against US backed opposition.

Im guessing that it was a payback to the US backed coup in Ukraine and our deployment of "missile shields" next to their borders.


Anyway. Thats how I think it is. Any throughs?

 

Vladimir Putin and Erdogan had restored their relationship before the coup, and it's probably the reason the US and Nato wanted to overthrow Erdogan. I recall reading that Putin warned Erdogan, and I found this in Fort Russ to substantiate it:

Last week information appeared in the press that supposedly Moscow warned Ankara about the impending coup a few hours before its start. This, in particular, was reported by Iranian news Agency FARS, with reference to several Arab media outlets, who learned about it from sources in diplomatic circles.

It was noted that the Russian military had intercepted coded radio messages and critical information exchanged between the organizers of the rebellion. Then Moscow passed the evidence of the preparation of the coup to the National intelligence organization of Turkey (MIT).

http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/07/turkish-foreign-minister-thanks-putin.html​

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Here's an interesting article about Nato being involved in the coup:

http://katehon.com/article/natos-fingerprints-turkish-coup​

 

Erdogan staged the coup lol. Good to see PF's local Kremlin waterboy has already posted

 

Instead of ad hominem attacks in order to discredit what I say... which is nothing more than a cover up for ignorance, how about showing the falsity in what I said. I betcha can't 'cause it don't exist? Hee, hee, hee!

 

If a clock is broken every time you look at it, you will most likely stop using the clock as a frame of reference.

Oh right, - insert annoying comment like 'Tee Hee Hee' to show my maturity.

 

Not exactly true. The only thing that was announced for sure before the coup was that Turkish Stream pipeline would be planned to resume.

And that was more beneficial to Russia as it would strengthen European reliance on Russian gas. If you recall, US also wants to build a pipeline going to Turkey. That was ment to cut European reliance on Russian gas. Thats half of the reason why we are in Syria.

The fact that restoration of such a project was anounced before the coup illistrates that at that at that point Turkey traded Russia for US.

But here is the thing. How do you annouce it?

Turkey cant just say "F you, we are now working with Russia." They needed a feasable excuse to do so. Thats where this coup comes in.

It allows Turkey to get rid of his political enemies. It allowed for the removal of US. And it even allowed justice for the SU27 pilot whi was killed. All in one go.

Out of this coup Russia and Erdogan became the biggest victors in this. And getting rid of US who had their nuclear assets in Turkey is a perfect response to US endangering Russian nuclear assets in Europe.

US doesnt have a habit of failing in such things. Libya. Syria. Ukraine. Others.

All US coups and rebelions are well organized and rarely fail.

Turkish coup was badly organized and had no chance of succes from the very beging. It reaked of a false flag thats designed to root out political enemies. If you recall. Before the coup, Turkey passes a new laws which would allow them to arrest politicians.

In my opinion this is not a US staged coup. Turkey who has our nukes is too important to stage a haphazard coup with no chance if success. It just doesnt make any sense. This is true ESPECIALLY when dealing with nukes.

If this was a US coup, there would be special forces involved. ESPECIALLY when considering that Turkey has our nukes.

Entrusting our nukes to the coup conspirators(no doubt some of them radicals) is something that US just wouldnt do.

The fact that this coup hapened in Turkey who has our nukes, the fact that our special forces wernt involved, the fact that this coup was so badly planned, the fact that we just wouldnt risk oir nukes falling into the wrong hands (like ISIS), and the fact that Russia came out the biggest winner in this all leads me to my conclusion.

The coup did not fail because Erdogan recieced a warning. It did not fail because Erdogan himself is so strong. It failed because it was badly planned. And as I said, that is not something we do. Especially when dealing with nukes

Risking our nuclear assets to terrorist by staging a coup is not something that we would do. If we did, we would have loads of assurances in the form of military aid to the rebels or special forces.

We saw none in this coup.

It was only after the coup that air travel to Turkey. Produce ban. Etc were announced to resume.

Sorry to be so repetitive. I just want to get across why I dont think its a US backed coup

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This is my take.

Turkey sided with US and Europe by shooting down su27. It, like everyone else through that Russia would ultimately fail. So they sided with the victors. Erdogan is opportunistic like that. Most likely he want both the US and Russian pipelines. So by shooting down su27, he essentially is cutting Russia off.

Putin wasnt so angry and call this attrack a "stab in the back" over the death of 1 services member. He said those things because they Turkey was essentially cutting Russia off and siding with US.

So Putins response? Cut Turkey off.

Putin once said that he believes that the magnitude of the punishment delt should be proportional to the crime committed.

Cutting Trukey off for the death of 1 service member is not a proportional punishment.

Cutting Turkey off after they cut Russia off is.

And Turkey suffered greatly. And they wernt compensated by the west for it. This explains Erdogans frustration.

And all the while the US looked weaker and weaker. Then there was a report.

After blowing off Russias talk of cooperation, realizing that things arnt going their way, they volunteered themselves. No doubt to save face.

Turkey likely saw that too. Thats why the proud Erdogan lowered himself to and apologizes to Putin.

He realized that Russia will be the ultimate victor in Syria. More then that, I think he realized that either the EU will collapse or EU will not allow Turkish membership. Either way, he realized that Turkey will never be part of EU. But Erdogan wants to expand his economy. He wants to expand his empire.

He saw Russia as a better opportunity for that. Especially since Russia is working with China and Iran to esrablish to new silk road.

A highs speed rail between Russia and China was signed into agreement.

By 2018 Russia plans to have a hyperloop that could take cargo from China to Europe in 1 day.

So Erdogan reached out and apologized to Putin. And they had a meeting

At the meeting Putin secured the Turkish stream project and announced its resumption. He also said that they will be looking into resuming tourism.

Then the coup happened.

It was probably agreed between Putin and Erdogan to stage a coup to oust US presence to show Turkish loyally.

It seems like something Putin would do. He is not a man who would trust a traitor whithout good assurance.

He needed Erdogam to oust US. Not only to show Erdogans loyalty but to also punish US for encroaching on his territory.

So he waited for Turkey to do its part.

When the coup happened and Erdogan blamed it on the US while praising Russia,. Even the Pilots who shot down the Su27 were arrested. No doubt as a token. A full list of reports came out after. It all came almost at once in the span of few days after the coup.

Russia is lifting Produce ban
Russia is resuming air Travel
Russia is resuming tourism
Turkey allows Russia acces to its Air base.

Like I said. I just think that the progress of events is just too much to be a coincidence

 

Where did you get that the west caused the COUP? Credible source to verify your claims.

 

There are whispers in the air that US has moved it nuclear weapons from Trurkey to Romania.

If true, it solidifies my suspicions.

I see a complicated geopolitical battle

 

Why would Erdogan want to break off Turkeys relationship with the west, when he always had a very friendly and profitable relationship with Russia as well as with Washington? He always knew how to play both sides, and when the plane was shot down, Turkey went into a recession. It lost billions over Russia's sanctions.

There was no gain in it for Erdogan as there was when he broke off with Israel. At that time it was more profitable for him to befriend the Arab nations by supporting Palestine.... but in order for him to do so he had to turn away from Israel... so he had a false flag attack on the Mavi Marmaris... Or at least that's what I think.

It was a different situation than the one with Russia since Turkey had never been pressured by Russia or the US. Quite the contrary, Erdogan was the one that always made the terms. Inflexibility symbolizes strength to the Turkish people. He wouldn't dare give in to either side, since it would be a sign of weakness and he would lose his following.

Anyway Erdogan cannot be trusted, but I do trust Russia in what it says, since they rarely say things unless driven to it. Their cultural make up in contrast to Turkey's, is to see talk and threats as a sign of weakness.

You can find a list of the Americans involved in the coup on:

http://katehon.com/article/ten-secret-organizers-pro-american-coup-turkey

The list of Americans involved in the Turkish putsch arrangement was published.

The new list of US intelligence personnel involved in the coup in Turkey was announced. According to the Aksam newspaper, these people arrived in the country from July 13 to 15, and directly co-ordinated rebels actions, as well as helped to create the publications in western and local gülenist media.

While it proved a number of CIA members involvement, officially attributed to the composition of the US diplomatic representation.​

 

What difference does it make what I believe or what you believe, it's what Erdogan believes that matters and he sees certain Americans as well as a Nato General as being involved in the coup.

Of course Erdogan might be wrong, but it does seem feasible, and he is reacting to it.

 

Fallen - Erdogan has been cracking down on the followers of Gulen for years, especially after he revealed Erdogan's corruption so he would lose the election. More recently he got rid of his closest adviser PM Devotoglu, and if I recall correctly Devotoglu said that he was the one that gave the orders to shoot down the Russian plane.

I think Erdogan became upset when he realized that there was no way Turkey would ever join the EU. The cost to Turkey's economy was also in the billions because of Russia's sanctions, and more than likely this is what forced him to make amends with Vladimir Putin.

Restoring his relations with Vladimir Putin would have put the American endorsed TAP gas pipeline in jeopardy since the preference would have been the Russia Turkstream... This might be why Gulen and the others were pressured to have the coup.

Other than Russia having told Erdogan about the coup... which was reported in Iranian and Arab papers, I read that the jet next to Erdogan's plane didn't shoot because Russia jammed it electronically ...but that might just be speculation. ..or maybe not.

 

I think you overestimate the power of Putin.
Russia could cut off tourism, impose a ban on fruits and vegetables, even cancel gas pipe-line projest and so on. But all this would never destroy Turkey. Moreover, these harmful things make harm for both sides, and Russia had to choose carefully what to do to respond on the Su-24 down. The real problem of Turkey is Erdogan and his neo-imperialistic policy. From the first beginning it was clear that setting on fire the neighbour's house (what Turkey did in respect of Syria) wasn't a good idea. And many people (including the local "Russia trolls") spoke about that. Russia trolls were right, the fire was thrown to inside of Turkey, today they have problems with terrorist attacks all across the country, and also there is a war in the South-East of Turkey against Kurds. After the coup attampt Erdogan got isolated, that's why he turned back to Putin. But this is temporary alliance, short-term cooperation.

 

Exactly.

You know I think when Putin said "apologize" he meant something more. There are diffrent ways to apologize.

He is often seen using words in this was.

I dont think Putins idea of apology is a "sorry".

I wouldnt put it past him to have Turkey brake way its relationship with US as a requirement to restoring relations.

Like I said. The fact that Turkey contains our nuclear weapons and the fact that the coup was so badly executed lead me to believe that it was not done by the US for sure. We simply wouldnt risk our nuclear weapons on a badly planned coup attempt.

Erdogan had something to gain. Fully restoring his relationship with Russia. Russia cut ties. They were in a recession. US who probably had something to do with the downing of su27 wernt helping them either. If this continued Turkey could have seen an economic collapse.

This would especially true if EU broke up. Something its endanger of.

..on the other hand Russia is opening a silk road..

So Erdogan had everything to gain

The fact that Russia has cut all ties with Turkey is pretty pressuring

And yes. Erdogan is very vain. He likes to always feel in control. Putin put him in his place and made Erdogan come crawling to him.

I laughed when I heard that Erdogan sent a letter of apology to Putin. Erdogan probably felt humiliated

Im all for Russia and I often argue in their defense.

But I smell so eyhing different here. With the progression of events.

And a US backed coup completely makes no sense.

If it wasnt done by US then we can just look at the biggest victor. Russia.

Dont tell me you believe Turkey? Is there any real hard evidence that those people were in fact involved in the coup?

In my opinion, Russia planed the coup and had Turkey execute it so that they can bpame it ob the US to sever the ties and weaken US influence in the region to counterbalance US moving our missile shield on to Russian borders.

Erdogan saw opportunity in this false flag coup and used it to go after his political enemies.

It was a win win. Except Russia won the most in this.

 

A possibility.

I dont know though

When I ask myself "what does US gas to gain in this coup"

I cant really think of a good answer.

But when I ask "What does Russia has to gain in this coup attempt" I could think of plenty of things.

I thought that it was just a coup attempt planned by Erdogan at first.

But then info that Putin warned him came out. This made me think of their meeting.

 

Who and caused the COUP? There are no Credible source to know .

 

I agree! It's not going to last. Erdogan is a megalomaniac with a messianic view of himself. He believes he's been chosen by Allah to spread Islam and take over Europe.

 

Russia wins by pure luck, (and the stupidities of others), like with Crimea, but in the fantasies of the 'elite' there are visions of conspiracy theories with a cunning Putin playing the world on his fingers..

Actually Erdogan has been suspicious of Washington and its NGO's since the time of the protests in Istanbul... and that was about five years ago. The person he fears the most is Gulen who lives in Pennsylvania and has connections with Washington. He is the one with the power to topple Erdogan and the Washington elite want very much to see a return of the secular and military governments... especially since they had an amiable relationship with Israel.

A couple of years back it was Gulen who tried to destroy Erdogan by revealing how corrupt he and his family was. It didn't work, Erdogan's control over the majority of the Turks is greater than Gulen's ...whose followers are more educated but in a minority.

Gulen is a billionaire who runs private schools in Turkey. He has his own vision of spreading Islam and his students are his loyal followers. They are the judges, police chiefs, reporters, and even editors in Turkey. The editor of the largest English daily Zaman was arrested recently and the newspaper confiscated for criticizing Erdogan.

In the army those who were followers of Gulen went up the ranks quicker than the others, so he was the only one capable of a coup. If anyone wanted to topple Erdogan and restore a secular government it would have to be done through Gulen... or at least this is how I see it.

As for Russia, they would have no connection with Turkey's military since they are a member of Nato. .

 

My personal experience is that the coup is not a false flag operation at all. The coup plotters tried their best, but apparently many unexplained things happened. Though those things were definetely not an advantage for Erdogan. Notice that Turkey is now almost a failed state.

Two things should be considered. The plotters were "respected" and experienced NATO generals. Nobody could really control more than hundred NATO generals except NATO itself. The other thing is the very suspicious activities in Incirlik NATO base during the coup attempt.

I really suspect that the coup attempt was a NATO operation. The critical moment was, the Turkish first army, which is Istanbul based, sided with Erdogan and refused to join the coup. That's why Erdogan couldn't move so he stayed in Istanbul for a while. Within 10 hours, almost 300 people were killed and thousands were wounded, and the Turkish army splitted into two parts, the First army that supported Erdogan, and the second and third Armies that were apparently in the coup attempt. The Turkish Air force and Gendarme was also engaged. My understanding is that NATO couldn't run the risk of a total civil war in Turkey so they stoppped the operation.

I think that the West see Erdogan as a threat for the alliance and either they will kick Turkey out of all the Western institutions and alliances, or they will take care of Erdogan. We will see how things go. Erdogan's Russian card is now on the table.

 

Putin is an ex KGB agents who can play opportunistic idiots well. Erdogan is an opportunistic idiot.

Obviously not. The coup had no chance of success from the very beginning. It was badly organized and badly staged. And while Gulen may have staged a protest, it doesnt show that he was responsible for the coup. Politicians in America stage or back protests all the time to accomplish a plitical goal. Does thst mean that they are secretly plotting for a coup?

The same exact argument can be used for Russia. Was it not the state funded media that reported Turkish ties with isis month after month? Was it also not Russia who showed Turkish involvement with ISIS and provided surveillance footage?

Between their extensive involvement with ISIS, them shelling Syria, as well as making things worse, all point that Russia, especially Putin woulnt let Erdogan off the hook with just a simple apology letter.

Ousting a regional rival in the shadow of a coup though, thats a diffrent story. Especially with things evolving the way they are in eastern Europe.

And many more were arrested during ans after the coup. This coup was used as an opportunity for Erdogan to purge his political enemies.

And Erdogan is not capable of of a coup? Is he not capable of staging a coup and blame it on what you discribe his "rival:

Theu had a meeting before the coup. And Putin called Erdogan to "warn" him. The connection was there

Like I said.

When I think of what US has to gain by risking their nuclear arsinal in a coup I cant come up with anything.

Different story for Russia

 

If the west saw Turkey as a threat then they wouldnt have stored their nukes there. At the very least, the nukes would be removed as anything could happen durring choas of the coup. Like people breaking into the base and taking the nukes.

Isis for instance has a relitavely strong presence in Turkey.

As I said. I cannot picture us risking our nukes.

 

I'm confused. You attacked the other poster for not providing evidence. Before anyone should take a side in this discussion, we'll need evidence from you for the outrageous claims you've made.

 

so putin and edrogan did things to advance the russian and turkish national interest at the expense of the american national interest?

 

Pretty much. Especially to counter, or rather, punish our encroachment in eastern europe.

Thats my take on it.

 

You may be joking but of all the conspiracy theories I've heard it is the most plausible.

Not only has Erdogan fabricated fake coups before (i.e, the Egenekon "coup"), he has benefited greatly from the crackdown on his current political opponents, most particularly Fethullah Gulen's followers.

When I saw the footage of the coup on TV I couldn't believe the Turkish military was behind it - the lack of determination was unusual to say the least.

 

There is no American national interest in Syria. None whatsoever. Corporate interest yes, American national interest no.

By the way, even Zbig Brzezinski admitted that the USA supported the attempted failed coup. Poorly planned. The legacy of Obama's administration. Poor planning.

Top USA National Security Officials Admit Turkey Coup
http://journal-neo.org/2016/08/31/top-usa-national-security-officials-admit-turkey-coup/

While the Obama Administration and the CIA officially cling to the fig leaf lie that US intelligence was innocent of any involvement in the failed July 15 coup d’ etat attempt by the CIA-run Fethullah Gülen organization in Turkey, the truth is coming out from senior US intelligence insiders themselves. It reflects a huge internal faction struggle within US leading circles in what by all accounts is shaping to be the most bizarre Presidential election year in American history.

The first admission that US intelligence had their hand in the anti-Erdogan coup, a coup launched just days after Erdogan announced a major strategic shift away from NATO and towards Russia, came from Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski is one of the most senior members of the US intelligence establishment, a former Obama Presidential adviser and former National Security Council architect of the Jimmy Carter 1979 Mujahideen Afghanistan terror operations against the Soviet forces in that country.

In a Twitter tweet from his own blog, Brzezinski wrote a precis of a new article he wrote for The American Interest magazine. He writes, “The US backing of the attempted coup against the Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was a grave mistake that could deliver a major blow to the US reputation.” That’s definitely putting it mildly given what’s unfolding in Turkey since July 15.

Brzezinski went on to write, “Turkey was on the verge of reconsidering its foreign policy after failure in the Syria during the last five years, and the US miscalculation in supporting the coup and hosting its leader (Fethullah Gülen, now in CIA-arranged exile in Pennsylvania-w.e.) was so serious that it is no longer possible to put the blame on once-US-ally Turkey if it turns its back on US and rethink (sic) its policies.” He continues, “A potential Russia-Turkey-Iran coalition would create an opportunity to solve the Syrian crisis. If Erdogan had the smallest bit of wisdom, he should have come to the understanding that he could not make an independent credibility with the help of some ‘decayed’ Arab countries,” no doubt referring to Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the prime financiers of the Syrian terror war against Assad since 2011...