My Apologies.

I know what would happen. Also, we'd be getting alternate sources faster.
But as I said, it's in their soil, it's there's. They should be able to do with it what they want without bombs dropping on them.

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That is what was done in the US with NAFTA. But, the jobs replaced were less paying jobs than those that left. Which put more people on the dole of the gov't.

 

I do when they stab us in the back later!

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Then the global economy collapses. Do you think the powers that be are going to allow that to happen? This is reality ville that we are living in.

 

The left wing cannot ever deny the snowflake effect Obama had.
We have proof

 

So then my statement was correct. You are in agreement with said policy. Why did you deny?

 

What do I have to do with these policies that have been in place long before I was even born? Stick to the topic and stop trying to make this into something personal.

 

It is so difficult to have a normal discussion with all of these juvenile posts.

 

I find it is more useful to look at these things from a national economic perspective. People look at jobs and wages, but seldom do they look at the price of goods. yes, it may be that a high wage job was replaced by a low wage job. but ask, why is that? presumably the job was moved to e.g. mexico because wages were lower there, else it wouldn't have moved in the first place. this also means that goods will be cheaper. conversely, this means that if the job had stayed in the US, the goods would have been more expensive.

so the real question is: does the gain from keeping the high wage job weigh more than the higher prices of goods? in other words, which situation will lead to higher national wealth? from a national economic perspective, it globalisation makes sense, since it leads to lower prices, which all consumers benefit from.

the problem is though.. that those who bear the cost are few and the cost is great: they will lose their job, a huge loss. and those who reap the benefit are many, and while the benefit in total is enormous, it is individually insignificant. The US economy might save millions of dollars because of cheaper prices, but divided among 300 million people, it amounts to a cents per person.

so.. it's not suprising why those who lose from free trade have a much greater personal incentive than those who gain by free trade.. But remember, that when speaking of nations as a whole, free trade is the best option.

 

There is another reason. Speaking personally the most important political goal I wished to achieve was to basically destroy the existing political establishment of both parties. There really was only one candidate with a realistic chance of winning who could do this, and that was Trump, since even the Republicans did not want him in. As it stands now, the Democrats are in a shambles and the Republicans have as their standard bearer someone completely outside of the Washington power structure. Anything positive out of the next 4-8 years is icing on the cake in comparison.

 

Wall with 1600 miles is only thing I want with Trump and then Trump doing that job.

Nice to met another Swedish from Sweden in last one post.

 

I would say that falls into the "he is bad but better than the alternative" option. and yeah,, if your goal is to mess things up, electing trump will do wonders. not only in the USA, but maybe the international order as well.

 

The sky is falling! Stop with the fear mongering. This is a well known liberal tactic that everyone is familiar with.

 

Yep, I can understand why people can't stand Hillary. I can't stand her either. But Trumpers just threw a Hail Mary pass to Satan. Hillary was horrible but Trump is terrifying. We will all be lucky to survive the next four years [assuming he isn't impeached first].

This was a catastrophic failure of democracy and the American people.

 

Are you pro EU?

 

I consider the Business As Usual atmosphere in Washington over the past several decades to be the most "messed up" thing that could have happened. The absolute last thing we needed was yet another political dynasty to emerge. Those of us out here not in the few huge cities were things are just fine literally could not take another 4-8 years of that.

 

His post is corny because all of Europe is in the exact same place as us, as to people being sick of globalists and mass migration.

But, you know, us "rubes" don't know this. Haha

"Globalist" walks-hand-in-hand with "oblivious". Apparently, no matter where you live.

 

*sigh*

indeed, and embarassing. I mean, you're supposed to be the "leaders of the free world" and what not.. but not anymore I'd say. I think you'd have a hard time to lead anyone anywhere, even after trump. reputation cost less to maintain than to repair, and all that.. Well, americans don't seem very interested in leading anyways, so there's that. for americans who view the USA as being the leader of the free world.. this must be devestating. it's a huge defeat, with long-lasting consequences. The USA can't just move on from this after four years, pretending nothing happened. No, your image has irrevocably been changed I'm afraid.

yes, mostly, but i have some big issues with it.

it was reckless no doubt. the establishment are to blame. had they not mismanaged things, trump would never happened.

 

What are you sighing about? You have no evidence for any of your accusations. It's all just emptiness. Some of you are just upset because liberals lost and lost BIGLY. Trump happened because people are sick and tired of the establishment politicians, left and right. We are ready for some REAL change for a change.

 

Most assuredly. it was an act of desperation and defiance by a population that feels as if it has been ignored and denigrated by The Powers That Be for far too long.

 

One reason why I don't complain about folks on welfare or similar who've lost their job.
It was expected and the gov't and the corps should be smart enough to know their will be an increase.
Until an equilibrium is reached between jobs, pay, price, and world markets. But that is decades in the making.

 

Understanding the perspective of another helps in debates. To know where one is coming from.

 

LOL. The RW mantra is to put fear into people to get them to vote a certain way.
All muslims can't be trusted. Lets kill their families if one in the family does something bad. Those are things the RW says.

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Absolutely. NO more Bush, clinton, bush clinton. Ever Ever EVER again.

 

Nor can I. This has shaken me to the core. I always hoped I would never see in this country, what I have witnessed over the last year. We have fought wars to defeat what is growing here like a cancer.

 

Shiva, you're making my case for me.

Yes, but the doctor is absolutely dependent on production. Look at the equipment doctors use these days. Medicine is a manufactured product too. Now if the doctor imports his equipment from a foreign manufacturer, the wealth created in that foreign country is largely used in that foreign country. But if it is manufactured in our country, the wealth created by that domestic production stays largely in our country. Now I'm not saying we should not import anything. What I am saying is that if we have a fair and equitable exchange of manufactured products between our country and other countries, both countries benefit. But if manufacturing products in this country ends, that piece of the wealth production is lost, and all the service industry is doing is shuffling around money, not creating wealth.

Exactly my point, Shiva. 50%! That means that the other 50% is in some other country. Again, if that other country trades products equitably with us, no one loses.

Then why don't they have doctors and trucks and road builders and teachers? It's because they don't produce anything, that's why. If they were producing wealth, all those services would follow and feed off that production just like they do in developed countries. So I remain convinced that the root source of wealth is when people take raw materials and make something of value with them. Services feed off of that production of wealth.

Likewise, Shiva. Cheers, Seth

 

More than anything else that determined my vote. During the early Primaries I was equally adamantly anti Jeb.

 

Point being that the US continues to do what is demanded by the world that it do. What do you have to say about Obama and Syria and Libya?