Wind and Solar now one of Cheapest form of Energy

3 out of 450+, you can't be serious. Please provide some proof.

 

Unfortunately there are a dozen ways to estimate cost of electricity and EIA uses most of them. Here is another take from EIA which disagrees with your assertion, though wind is getting close.

 

I haven't seen any cheap methods for a home owner to produce his own electricity and to be fully disconnected from the power company. As of right now only wealthy people can afford alternative energy poor people can't.

 

Who says we can only do it if we're fully disconnected?

 

No Australia suffered rolling blackouts because the regulating authority was full of incompetents

 

They had grid problems and management issues.

Of note NSW which is based on coal production also had rolling blackouts in that massive heat wave

 

Years ago there was a program about a guy who did just that.
He claimed he just engineered in off the shelf products.

Sunlight causes the electrolysis of water from which he collects and stores
hydrogen to feed into a fuel cell to power his home.

BTW, look at an image of the southern California suburban sprawl in to desert area and naked roof tops. Y'gotta wonder why building codes were not updated since the mid 20th century. Whole new neighborhoods with naked roofs, no gray water recycling - then they tell me there are shortages and I must conserve.


"The system'' has no interest in home owners being independent from the utility companies, do they?
Utility companies are big business, just like medical insurance companies skimming their cream off ObamaCare. How much simpler to just bypass the medical insurance companies unless someone opts to purchase it instead of a gov't plan. Utility companies the same.
Archaic institutions profiting on . . . - certainly not competition.

It is good to have political influence.
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Moi

r > g
The Banks' Game

Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
​

 

How much does a hydrogen fuel cell cost.

 

It's wrong. Solar costs over 80 cents a KwH. That is a fact. Google it.

 

It's a bullshit story. The latest, most advanced, and most recent solar plant in Ivanpah, CA. I drove past it last week. The Ivanpah Solar Power Facility is an environmental and economic disaster, and costs Californian's dearly. It's a $2.2 Billion money pit that fries birds by the hundreds in mid flight. It can't store energy.

80 cents a KwH = Solar

 

Chernobyl was a graphite moderated reactor. Graphite moderated reactors were originally popular during the Manhattan Project, the 1940's because they could use Uranium at naturally occurring concentrations -- unenriched. Because they were part of a top secret project, we didn't share information with anyone --- like instabilities that can occur. We didn't share our knowledge with the Brits and they had one blow ,,, and we certainly didn't share it with the Russians. What Chernobyl has to do with safety of water moderated reactors is beyond me.

Three Mile Island 2 was a Pressurized water reactor. The entire primary system was housed in a containment with a steel liner and 6-8 ft of reinforced concrete. While the regulators were telling the industry to look over there at postulated accidents that could never happen to prove that under the 'worst' accident, double ended guillotine break in the largest pipe in the system, no attention was paid to human factors. the accident involved a feedwater pump trip and 8 operator errors. The core melted, hydrogen was released into the containment by a reaction between metal and water, and the hydrogen inside the containment exploded. There was very little release to the environment despite the catastrophic failure inside and the containment building remained intact.

Fukushima is a concern because it's a Boiling Water Reactor. The robust containment only protects the reactor vessel. Even the spent fuel pool is outside of the robust containment, contained in building that is not near as robust. The same mechanism that caused the hydrogen explosion at three mile island blew the side of the building off at Fukushima. Our nuclear regulatory commission leads the way. If they will license a GE BWR here, they can be licensed anywhere. GE got away with their design by arguing that the sprays they installed in the containment would keep the pressure down --- obviating the need to truly contain all of the vulnerable components of the system. Not a good plan in the event power is lost to pump the water.

There are other technologies like Thorium Reactors that don't have the long lived fission products. There are also modular reactors that would streamline the erection of a reactor. N ,,, has a bad name, so any technology starting with N will be hard to get funding for. The market will take care of wiping N out of consideration for future power. Perhaps N shouldn't be an option.

Then there's D. The Tellico Dam turned out to be another economic disaster. Enviro-nazis of the day decided it was their job to save the habitat of snail darters by claiming they were endangered. The snail darters were no more endangered than polar bears, but that didn't stop the enviro-nazis. Thank goodness the enviro-nazis who fought to the death against renewable energy, D, are now fighting to save the planet from plant food.

 

Ok, I Googled it.


Energy Plant Type . . .Lifetime Cost (¢ per Kwh)
–––––––––––––– . . .–––––––––––––––––––––––––
Offshore Wind . . . . . . . 20.0
Peaker Natural Gas . . . 18.0
Coal with CCS . . . . . . . 14.4
PV Solar. . . . . . . . . . . . 12.5 <<<<
Gas with CCS . . . . . . 10.0
Biomass. . . . . . . . . . . . 10.0
Hydro-electric. . . . . . . . . 8.4
Nat'l Gas Comb. Cycle. . 7.5
Land Based Wind. . . . . . 7.4

http://www.solarcellcentral.com/cost_page.html

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NV Energy, a Berkshire Hathaway-owned utility company, has signed a PPA to purchase electricity from the 100 MW Playa Solar 2 power plant at a stunningly low price of $0.0387/kWh.

https://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/10/price-solar-hits-record-low/

It makes a BIG difference whether you talk of residential roof-top solar or large commercial solar plants.

 

Your source is utter bullshit.

None of those prices are correct.... except Coals and Gas. I have worked in the industry for over a decade. What you have there is a wish and a dream by enviroliars "Lifetime" Cost is not what we pay to deliver it. Those rates are a joke for stupid people.

 

Keep searching.
"The study found that projected utility-scale PV power costs will range from 6.6¢/kWh to 11.7¢/kWh across all scenarios"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...op-solar-or-utility-scale-solar/#347041d61e5d

"On March 11, utility-scale solar generation in the territory of the California Independent System Operator (CAISO) accounted for almost 40% of net grid power produced during the hours of 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. This is the first time CAISO has achieved these levels, reflecting an almost 50% growth in utility-scale solar photovoltaic installed capacity in 2016. The large and growing amount of solar generation has occasionally driven power prices on the CAISO power exchange during late winter and early spring daylight hours to very low, and sometimes negative, prices."
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=30692

Why don't you post your sources too?

If your cost estimates are based on the installation cost of a complete residential rooftop solar system in its first year, the cost would be very, very high. But subsequent years (if that is how you calculate it) would be close to free since solar energy requires no fuel expense and very little maintenance cost for the life of the system of 25 years or so.

Therefore, the only logical way to assess the cost per kWh would be to amortize the total cost over the life of the system. That would average out the cost over the life of the system, and that would be the "Lifetime Cost" that you say is bullshit.

I couldn't help but notice that you only gave your personal opinion with no supportive documentation, and you peppered it with attacks, which is typical of someone who is trying to intimidate due to having no real argument complete with supportive documentation.

 

And some of the worst issues we had was because both South Australia and Victoria are relying on a coal fired power station that was supposed to be closed years ago. Everyone wants reliable electrical supply but no-one wants to put hand in pocket to ensure that the infrastructure is not just upgraded but given basic bloody maintenance!!

 

Used to but now it is getting cheaper and cheaper

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

Solar thermal is still very expensive and we may never see it fully live up to promises but PV is really getting ahead on price

Hydro and wind are still cheapest though

 

@Bowerbird

Your electricity source is what?

 

The power socket in my wall

 

Gerry Brown the anointed declared your drought ended. Now you can get pillaged by the companies that ordered you to conserve water and other things in the form of higher prices. They sold less so have to make up for losses in sales.

 

Not quite.
More like - - so Jerry Brown could continues to support the construction industry as he
has the frackers. Giving water to fracking but not orchards. Lots of Peach and Almond
orchards could have been saved if Brown had allocated that water to them until the relief came. Consider how long it take to create a productive orchard.

Telling me to conserve water and power while suburban sprawl new neighborhood
continue to be built with no better conservation than the building codes of the fifties.

Jerry Brown displays one face while behaving contrarily.
He looks leftie but behaves corporationist.
Nothing worse than a corporationist leftie
And consider who pays for his leftie principles. Working people.
Like the new gas tax. If you can't afford a Tesla, too bad for you.


Moi

r > g

Secure the Alaskan corridor.
Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
​

 

I agree that hydrogen would be too dangerous as a fuel source.

 

The "study" claims nuclear power is THE most expensive. That is accurate.

As for solar and wind, if one actually looks at charts they compare micro output solar and wind compared to mega output coal and gas. In addition, their cost projections are based upon calculating costs under OBAMA'S new regulations.

The study also ONLY counts "output" costs - and NOT storage costs, ie how to store electricity from wind and solar, given solar does not produce at night and wind power does not when there is no wind. Solar and wind ONLY supplement coal and natural gas WHEN solar and wind is producing electricity.

The study does not take into account any costs or practical aspects of how to store solar and wind electricity for times it is not producing. Nor the costs of mega production levels of solar and wind. Rather, it compares small solar and wind electrical production feeding into the national grid - for which coal, natural gas and nuclear power pick up all the slack at night when solar produces no electricity and when there is no wind for wind power.

This makes the study worthless. It would be no difference than comparing the overall costs and benefits of a gasoline powered car versus an electric car - but deleting the cost of the electric car's battery and disregarding the driving distance, recharging time and availability of charging stations - assuming a person is basically towing a gasoline powered car so when the electric car runs out of power then the gasoline car can tow the electric car.

It would be very difficult to convince people to accept they will have no electricity except for clear skies, sunny, windy daylight hours.

 

There also is the new electric car penalty fee.

 

The study did not factor in any energy storage costs in claiming wind and solar cost less, nor did they factor in any large scale electric output costs of either.

 

That fee is $100!
A working person with an old, gasoline car who must drive to or for work pays more.
If Jerry was a leftie, the road repair tax would be paid with the car registration and
based on the cars value. Then the Tesla people will pay their fair share!

I do believe the spirit of Pat Brown is ashamed of his son at this moment.


Moi

r > g

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