North Korea disrespected China is an oxymoron

Umm, no, have you never heard of the black market? As I said, China is part of the solution, not the whole solution....

 

It would make the Iraq fiasco appear to be a wise invasion...
If Trump does it right, we could have war with China...

 

Dumb, you can't support a million man army, and live high off the hog on the black market, just stop already. If China cut all aid, and trade off to North Korea, they would collapse in a matter of months.

 

Dupe

 

In today's world, no, they would not collapse and there is a secondary market they have tapped into. NK has been surviving, their population has been suffering terribly for decades, all in the support of the "dear leader".
You want to lay all of this on China, forgetting that China is not exactly an American ally....interesting.

 

Nonsense, and once again we have had sanctions against North Korea since Clinton was in office. How has that worked?

 

Which is precisely why NK is a difficult file. This isn't as easy as the moron-in-chief thought it would be but, laying the whole thing onto China isn't going to work..........NK will make a lot of "noise"......

 

Sandy that's pathetic even by your usual sad standards. Even the Chinese have figured out that this particular iteration of the family Kim isn't playing with a full deck.

 

You aren't listening. N.K. is China's ally. It is not likely China will put a lot of pressure on N.K. She will put some to satisfy world opinion, but not enough to do anything. China is increasing trade with N.K.

China helping the U.S. (an adversary) at the cost of N.K. (an ally) is a Trump pipe dream.

 

Yawn, you're right, I don't listen to people who have no clue what they're talking about.

China is North Korea's sole benefactor, and only they can pressure the North Koreans. There have been numerous diplomatic spats between the two this last year. That's because of the erratic behavior coming from the Kim regime. China is the only viable option to contain fat boy Kim, because the US has no other options short of war. So let's avoid war, and push China towards putting pressure on N. Korea. That's the only viable option.
North Korean ships head home after China orders coal returned
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/north-korean-ships-head-home-after-china-orders-coal-returned.html

A fleet of North Korean cargo ships is heading home to the port of Nampo, the majority of it fully laden, after China ordered its trading companies to return coal from the isolated country, shipping data shows.

Following repeated missile tests that drew international criticism, China banned all imports of North Korean coal on Feb. 26, cutting off the country's most important export product.

To curb coal traffic between the two countries, China's customs department issued an official order on April 7 telling trading companies to return their North Korean coal cargoes, said three trading sources with direct knowledge of the order.

 

Your article is dated is dated April 11. That is old information. You need to watch this video. Among other things, trade between N.K. and China is up over 30%. It is reported in the video the coal thing was a ruse.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5455165519001/?#sp=show-clips

"China is North Korea's sole benefactor, and only they can pressure the North Koreans." I know that. The problem is that is not likely to happen. Again, watch the video.

You still haven't explained why China should help the United States (an adversary) by restricting N.K. (an ally). You keep skipping over that part.

 

You need to watch this video. http://video.foxnews.com/v/5455165519001/?#sp=show-clips

I saw this segment on Fox after I wrote the OP you quoted. It reinforces what I have been saying.

When Trump said N.K. disrespected China, he is playing word games to deceive the American people. Trump is convinced that China will help an adversary, us, by restricting an ally, N.K. This is a wild pipe dream, but he wants the American people to believe that, too. That's why he said it.

Trump has never explained how China is helping us. He just keeps saying that she is despite facts that say different. The reason he can't explain himself is because China is not helping us.

If you think she is, show us how China is helping us and be specific with documentation. If view of the video, any documentation must be very recent. Old documentation proves how China was fooling the Trump administration. For example, in the video, McKelway reports the coal thing was a ruse.

Now China is wooing South Korea. The new S.K. president, Moon, doesn't like the U.S., doesn't not like the Thaad system the U.S. installed, and wants better ties with China. China regards the Thaad system as a threat and wants better ties with S.K. That is called mutual interests.

China wants the entire Korean Peninsula within her sphere of influence and wishes to eliminate U.S. influence (and troops) from S.K. With all this as a backdrop, what do think the odds are of China helping the U.S.?

 

Trump prefers the simple and easy view. Let China solve the problem. He always prefers the simple and easy views because he is not equipped to handle the complicated views. As a consequence, Joe Sixpack on Main St. is more aware of the issues than the resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

 

Mattis said it best. War with N.K. would be catastrophic.

You raised a good point. As the U.S. is pounding the hell out of N.K. after Seoul and surrounding areas had become a wasteland, would China just stand by and let it happen?

I shudder at the answer to that question.

Mattis won't let Trump do that. Right? Right?

 

Fox is not objective. It is a Trump-friendly network. That said, Fox is my primary source of the news. I can't tolerate the liberal networks.

"If you think the NYTimes and Reuters is "President Trump's home page'" I worded that badly. The Times and Reuters often report what the Trump administration is saying. That is what I should have said instead of the "home page" crack. My bad.

The news clip info was from informed sources. McKelway wasn't just making it up. Are you disputing anything in the clip? If so, please include the basis of your dispute.

 

There are allies and then their are allies Kim is not the sort of ally you want. He causes more headaches than he's ever likely to cure. Lil Kim's dad knew where his bread was being buttered Lil kim seems to be operating under the notion that he is !!GOD!!!! and such people are not safe and predictable.

 

I responded to the contents of the video here:

 

SINGAPORE — Defense Secretary Jim Mattis sought Saturday to reassure jittery allies in the Pacific about President Trump’s nationalist agenda after delivering a speech that cast North Korea as an “urgent military threat” and cited China for its military actions in the South China Sea.


Mattis, speaking here at the Shangri-La Dialogue defense summit, said that the Trump administration is encouraged by China’s “renewed commitment” to pressure North Korea to stop its nuclear weapons program but that the United States will not accept China’s military buildup in the South China Sea. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ina-and-trumps-agenda/?utm_term=.176692f72e2a

Mattis failed to explain what that new commitment was all about, so does Trump and so does Tillerson. Typical of the Trump administration, we are supposed to believe an outrageous assertion based solely on their say-so. Facts and specifics go unmentioned because there aren't any.

Later, Mattis got more realistic once he was through with the Trump dogma he is paid to support. The Post said:

In his speech, Mattis acknowledged the difficult diplomacy involved in getting China to act against North Korea, a longtime trade partner that shares a border.


While Trump has said that he is confident that Chinese President Xi Jinping will “try very hard” pressure Pyongyang, a Chinese trade partner, Mattis made it sound less certain that will happen.

 

Yeah, I saw that. I'm sorry, but your response didn't make much sense to me.

Trump is insisting that China will help us control N.K. You said, "Whether or not they're [China] taking decisive action is irrelevant." So, you are dismissing Trump's attempts to get Xi to help him? If so, that is wise.

Then you said, "Trump used the premise and goaded them for looking weak when their "handling" hasn't worked." Are you saying Trump is dumb enough to try to embarrass Xi? Such an attempt is laughable, and it represents further proof that on the world's stage Trump is an incompetent buffoon.

So, if I am reading you right, we are in total agreement.

 

No, I am merely stating that the Chinese have laid down the premise that they have North Korea on a leash.

I don't see what is at all laughable or incompetent about trying to embarrass Xi in this way, the Chinese are notoriously insecure about their stature and respect on the global stage. It's the best course of action I can think of to take in trying to drive a wedge between China and North Korea, and costs next to nothing in terms of resources.

Do you have a better suggestion?

 

Well, yes, I agree with you. Kim is dangerous, but I don't think he is suicidal. He just wants attention and one on one talks with the U.S., which will elevate his status.

Trump made the mistake of fostering such talks when he described Kim as a "smart cookie." Fortunately, Trump has backed off that dumb-ass comment, and his SecDef is talking tough.

 

I'm not sure he hasn't bought into his own PR. Once megalomania goes beyond a certain point the possibility that you might die ceases to hold any real meaning to you.

 

They have? I have not seen that. Perhaps you can offer some substantiation for that statement. I have seen reports that China has warned both the U.S. and N.K. to cool it. We have not heard anything since April about China reining in N.K. I wonder why.

China is an economic powerhouse. She has the third largest military in the world. She is expanding her influence in Southeast Asia. She is expanding her influence on the Korean Peninsula, and she has our very important allies, Japan and Taiwan, very concerned. Amidst all this, Trump is attempting to embarrass Xi in his world? All Trump is succeeding in doing is embarrassing himself while proving he knows nothing about the politics of the Asia Pacific.

Whatever gave you the idea China is "notoriously insecure?" Having the second largest economy in the world with a growth rate of 10% lends itself to an enormous amount of confidence, not insecurity. Trump's withdrawal from the Paris accord and the TPP provides an enormous boost to the Chinese economy.

China is cementing its global dominance of renewable energy and supporting technologies, aggressively investing in them both at home and around the globe, leaving countries including the US, UK and Australia at risk of missing the growing market. It now owns five of the world’s six largest solar-module manufacturing firms and the largest wind-turbine manufacturer. As we speak, representatives from China are talking to members of the EU about expanding clean energy production. https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-dominance-of-renewable-energy-and-technology

A common lament associated with Trump’s decision revolves around the geopolitical advantages that China reaps from a TPP sans America. The basic line of argument is that the reputational hit from abandoning such an expansive and long-negotiated agreement will diminish U.S. leadership. This in turn will create a vacuum that China will rush to fill with its own trade agreements that exclude the United States in a bid to write new rules of the road in the Asia-Pacific. The ultimate result of this one-two punch would significantly improve China’s economic and political position at the expense of the United States. http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/us-withdrawal-from-tpp-geopolitical-and-geoeconomic-gift-for-china/

I really don't think China is feeling insecure these days.

 

Oh, yes, he strongly believes in his own fantasies. That's a major problem. He doesn't listen to advice that runs counter to his own. He listens to the fawning comments from his staff. Pence, McMasters, and Pruitt come to mind, and that reinforces his fantasies.

Combine all this with his super ego and narcissistic persona, and we have a huge problem. Making matters worse, I don't think he minds all the the controversy swirling around him. He has encouraged it with his bone-headed comments. I think he relishes all the controversy because of all the attention he is getting from it.

 

Oh for pity sake We were talking Kim here you know. Trump listens to advice from a dozen different people and then melds everything together. And does what he thinks will work best. Lincoln did it that way, so have many others. In this case your distaste for Trump has made you look like a damn fool.