That immigrant policy will work ! "Skill Based"

Keep out all but the very best, educated ones. This will drive up wages at the bottom. Now, you will get the other half of the rich people screan=ming that they can't hire low wage workers ! Guess what, stop being so greedy with all YOUR money and share it with your workers like we did from 46 - 84.
Going to hit a breaking point in a few years, the rich have been so pampered for so many years keeping all their dollars, filtering out employees for new lower wage one. Now, what are you going to do with no foot contractors coming over from Venezuela, or Cuba, or Mexico... Hmmm... Raise prices and past on all the costs to the consumers ? This will cause a hyperinflation and a breaking point...Should play out very interesting... Should help all those in the service sector, that is most of America because you can include manufacturing, healthcare in that area... 80% ???

I am sure anyone old enough listening to the orange grove owner complain that he could find cheap enough people to pick his oranges, thus he got subsidies from the gov't and gates open to Mexico allowing them to come in and pick. Pay for 40 an hour to pick them, I will do it...The owner may only make 2M that year vs 50M, but that is how you fix this problem, oh yea, and tax that 2M at 50% flat !

Thoughts ?

 

This is really good news and may be the best long term aspect of Trump's domestic agenda. Altering our immigration make up to skills based will, over the long term, tighten the lower wage, lower skilled job market, pushing those wages up.

I'm just wondering what talking point the GOP Congress will use to vote this down.

 

That Immigration bill (that Trump just made the statement on) is ALREADY DOA (as written).

 

Wait until some genius develops a robot to pick fruit.

 

Most likely the same one we have been hearing for years from big produce manufactures. We can't afford to pick heads of lettuce and other vegetables without quadrupling the price and hurting consumers. The only way for it to really work is with regulations in place. The whole political spectrum just moves from one side to the other, rich to rich... One get's his way, then the other fights back.
DOLE will cry bloody murder and increase the costs of produce UPFRONT before anything even happens, thus, forcing hands. Yet, republicans say free market and less regulations are better. Greed can not be controlled thru NO REGS. I could say, maybe special passes for certain produce, but then other industries wil lcry fowl. This is why we can't get anywhere, becasue one rich guy wants one thing and others dont get that special treatment.
Hyerinflation is sure to follow without forcing the rich guy to NOT increase his prices, put a limit on domestic cost increases, 5% a year. It is a no win situation and every time something looks good, it fails... At least this is an attempt from the GOP side to help workers.

 

I think you are comparing apples and oranges, to use a agricultural metaphor. This bill doesn't seem to have anything to do with H-2A agricultural visas. Those are temporary visas for agricultural work and can provide a steady stream of agricultural workers if needed.

 

Stephen Miller just had an uproarious exchange with a CNN reporter that is sure to blow up on social media.

Miller? What a tool.

 

immigration is complex and tricky.

1. Many complain about illegal immigration but fact is these people work much harder than the lower waged Americans. I know business owners that complain about the low wage Americans that work the bare minimum so they can collect government checks. Meanwhile, he has seen illegal workers do the job of 3 lazy American workers. So why is the lazy American entitled to be here and the productive low wage illegal alien not? Aren't we supposed to support a merit system?
2. Many business owners survive by hiring illegal workers because lazy Americans refuse to work for low wages. These business owners will get hurt, so not good for employment if businesses make less money?
3. What the f is this requirement that you have to speak English to enter the Country? There are thousands of immigrants who learn the language once here and contribute to the Country
4. Prioritizing high wage labor is a double edged sword. It will protect wages? at the expense of high skilled american workers. If you ask me, i would prefer for high skilled American workers to benefit from immigration and the lazy low waged American to compete with the hard working low wage immigrants. This policy would help the low wage American and penalize the high skilled american, who oftentimes, is the hardest worker.
5. Low wage labor = competition. If lazy americans feel entitled to high wages, it's a problem. Having low wage immigrants provides competition.

 

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

The American Tradition since October 28, 1886.

 

When produce hits all-time highs, and your wallet is made anorexic by the rise in costs to the consumer, are you going to be willing to vote Trump in a second time? Trump already lied about Mexico paying for the wall, this is just a way of going around putting a long-term immigration agenda in place.

How do you expect to get that OJ, huh? Or those apples or grapes or bananas? You won't, this looks good on paper but is bad in reality.

 

You know, last night on VICE News, they did a story about the shrimp boats down in the Gulf who are having a hard time getting workers. Seems that even though they are willing to pay 16 bucks an hour for people to pick the heads off of the shrimp and keep the tails (they are worth more that way) they are having a hard time getting American workers to fill the jobs. There are lots of Mexicans on the other side of the border who are waiting to get their visas (they haven't been told if they are approved or not) who are more than willing to come here and work on the shrimp boats.

Some of the shrimp captains have hired Americans to work, and some of them quit halfway through the first shift, forcing the shrimp boat to return to port, drop off the worker, and then go back out to sea. Lots of time and fuel wasted for that. They interviewed a dude who said that he'd heard about the job, and because it paid 6 bucks more per hour than what he'd been making, he thought he would give it a try for a 30 day period. He quit after the first day because he said the work was too hard.

Yes people, there ARE jobs that Americans won't do.

 

Immigration is always a touchy subject...and immigration is necessary for developed nations to sustain themselves. Even though the US has a slightly higher birth rate than most developed nations (about1.84 per woman) it isn't high enough to sustain a nation. The rate necessary for developed nations is roughly 2.1 per woman), if this isn't attained, this becomes a big reason for allowing immigrants into the nation. The demographers and mathematicians work out the numbers.

Immigration is a subject worthy of vigorous debate, it is a subject very, very important for any nation and partisan crap from both sides adds nothing to the debate. It isn't simple but I'm sure cooler heads in Congress will work through it.......they have to.

 

Wont do because it is 16 bucks an hour. That is nothing ! Not even a living a wage.... No benefits come along with that job and I am sure, that guy is all republican and wants those Mexicans... Or maybe the BUYER wants them so he can force the boat captain to continue taking cheap pay for the Shrimp, or the local laws have been changed to reflect massive costs for licensing, because the FEDS dont tax the rich enough to help the states, thus local politicians have to increase licensing fees to make up the short fall. Or, the insurance CEO of state farms BOAT AND SHRIMP policy is making 40M a year and thus, has been able to rape shrimp boat captains ever since all boats were devastated from the hurricanes that wiped out all Shrimp Boats, all those other than bubba gumps.

For every small business, there is someone in ANOTHER business making big bucks off of him and helping to keep his profit down, thus forcing him to wage war against his workers. It is never as simple as "that local guy doesn't want to work for 16 bucks an hour" NEVER...
I am all about VICE, love their news, love honesty, but I do think as time goes on they will fall to the "all liberal - all the time routine" They hire diversity, which is good, but at some point you either have to include the world or know that by cutting them off, you are making millions starve... We have a choice and that will be to turn the other cheek or, lower standard of living for all americans because, there will not be enough to go around. Why, because SOuth American, Asia, and Africa are popping out as many babies as possible all the time. I care about all people, but even I at some point got to say WTF ! Like Haahti... There is no way, with no money, zero natural resources, no jobs, etc. that anyone should be having kids. Yet they will continue on until a generation is starving ... then call us.. that **** is getting old, has been for a long time. Sam thing with South Sudan... Is that what we are going to do as a country, turn our cheek for 20 years, let them act all irresponsible and then another food bailout. Liberals should feel the same way, you can only do dumb **** so many times before you should give up.

 

Contrary to what some have suggested, the primary immigrants coming to the US have always been low skilled workers. Whether we're talking about immigration in the 1800s, the early 20th century, or immigration today. The majority have always been low skilled workers. I've even done a little research on my ancestry, and found that none of my ancestors who arrived in the US from Italy during the early 20th century had so much as a high school education. My great grand father's first job was a street cleaner

We're also seeing a consensus from economists who are arguing that the US economy is in need of both high skilled and low skilled workers. They argue that when labor demands are met, existing business grow, and business start ups also go up. More than this, the overall cost of living decreases, which in turn helps the economy overall, and makes certain welfare programs like food stamps less expensive. We've seen time and time again that the economic analysis on immigration show that immigrants are not bringing wages down in the US. http://www.aei.org/publication/how-does-immigration-affect-us-wages-and-jobs/

The idea that we do not need low skilled workers is inaccurate, in many areas of the country we have seen crops rot in the field simply from not having enough workers to bring in the yield.
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farm-labor-guestworkers/
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/29/news/economy/american-farm-workers/index.html


Construction companies have also complained that they are in need of more workers
https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welco....google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

The fact of the matter is we need low skilled workers as well as high skilled workers. In matters of economics, we should listen to what the economists are telling us, and what the economists are telling us is we need more migrant workers, not less

http://www.economist.com/news/finan...eds-more-immigration-not-less/comments?page=1
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...rhaul-would-drive-more-growth-than-obama.html
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/03/19/economist-ranks-trump-presidency-top-10-global-risk
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/06/news/economy/donald-trump-immigration/index.html

 

Well why not have companies prove they must have a VISA immigrant laborer after they tried almost everything to find domestic workers and this means pay offered if to low and made higher than that and they still can't fill slots then and only then can you get the VISA. As for skilled workers again prove you can't hire any and this includes having an expectation companies hire and train for the job domestic workers if needed to fill a slot. If you make the demand high enough companies will be better off just raising wages to fill slots and arranging training in house of existing workers over asking for VISA labor brought in. The OP was right if you can't get fruit pickers for what your asking if you raise the wage they likely will get workers and if you want people to work harder raise wages and have a bonus for quantity of production over that. If a robot is cheaper then those jobs can go to a robot but since its hard to find cheap labor it likely would be then a good thing save could a robot fully replace a human in the immediate future?

 

All true and great post. than you...with great links... Thus, we should limit the amount to allow the slower growth and increased wages. If plants are roting in the field, then let those making the huge bucks differ some of their wage to hire the workers needed. It is that simple. GREED... is the bottom line and when we cut the upper class tax rate, we screwed up big time. That was done in 84 to stimulate the economy, not to make the RICH FILTHY RICH and that is what it did. It created the problems we have now. I know the rich spend millions, maybe even into the billions now to keep status quo, in healthcare, in banking, in politics, the more confusing, the better. Nothing has gotten better and continues to only get worse. A good economy every 10 years does not make a good america or good for americans. Those that are smart know, that gas will go back to 5 bucks a gallon, jeans will cost 100 a pair. And until forced, the rich guy will continue to LEVERAGE the system to his benefit.

 

I have to admit, I honestly didn't think Brett Stephens talking point about deporting native Americans because immigrants were better would take off, but it looks like it's spreading. What exactly do you want to do with low skilled American workers that you hold in such contempt?

If there honesty are no American workers available, we still have temporary work visas; the same ones that people on this forum continue to pretend not to exist.

Wouldn't that just make things easier for us to have immigrants who come here already speak English? I'm really trying to grasp your objection to this.

So you've no problem with the current policy that screws low skilled American workers, but the thought that wage rates might drop for high skilled jobs sends you to the fainting couch? This bill is really revealing a lot about people.

 

I didn't propose anything, i merely pointed to the hypocrisy of making immigration merit based in order to deny entry to those with more merit, as to protect those with less merit. It's hypocritical. Perhaps you don't know the business sector well, i suggest you have a chat with small business owners. I have a friend that owns a gas station and he is constantly complaining about the 2-3 american workers who do everything to not exceed a certain amount of hours so they can collect welfare checks. He then tells me an immigrant would do the job of the 3 lazy, unproductive Americans by himself. Whilst i understand the need to protect citizens, there is something simply not right about this. We are rewarding laziness, everyone in this Country feels they are entitled to get paid a lot of money, yet many simply don't f deserve it.

I agree we should make use of temp work visas, but they are not that easy to get.

This is not what this Country was founded on. The people that came to thus Country were seeking freedoms from their oppressive government and did not have to pass any religious or language tests. This is how America was built.. I think it should be a requirement to speak the language when you apply for citizenship but not just to get a work permit or green card. As long as you are not a criminal or bad person and prove you are here for a job, there should be no requirement to speak english. Now, the expectation is that to apply for citizenship, you should have made an effort to learn English, perhaps an english test can be administered after immigrant has been working for a few years.

This Country cannot support a population that feels they are entitled to make a lot of money without actually deserving it, competition is good. Why should an American be entitled to more money just because they are American? does this make any f sense? If a guy from India who has an MBA and is a super talented, hard worker is fine making 45k when an american demands 80k, this is GOOD! Americans need be given competition.. this is good for productivity, without any f doubt.

 

I'll be honest, I don't think we have similar enough worldviews to even have a discussion on this issue. If you think rising wage rates for Americans is a problem that needs fixing by importing coolie help, rather than a benefit, then I'm unclear what kind of country it is you would like to live in, because it sounds like a dystopia to me.

 

Someone already did.

 

give me one good explanation as to why 1 lazy american should make 80k for a job that someone from India (who is a much better worker) is willing to perform for 60k? If your answer is 'because he's American!' then you don't truly believe in a merit system or promoting productivity.

I'm quite frankly tired of rewarding laziness, too many Americans think they are entitled to high wages when they don't deserve them!

 

Did you see him in the presser? In addition to being one of the biggest liars I have ever seen, he is obnoxious. Not at all surprised that Miller is the one Trump gave this job to. I was hoping someone would ask him if he's found proof yet of the 3000 Massachusetts residents he insisted that Clinton had bussed into New Hampshire on election day to throw the state for Hillary. Our former state GOP chairman still has a bounty ready for the person who provides proof of Miller's and Trump's lie.

 

The problem with this new policy is I'm not raising my kids to aspire to be blueberry pickers and yet someone is going to have to do that job. And I hope that whatever American ends up picks our blueberries if this goes through doesn't demand $25 an hour to do it.

This all sounds great, but in reality, it will only hurt most Americans.

 

this is what many don't realize. Americans nowadays think they are 'too good' for many of these low skilled jobs and simply won't do them unless they are paid a lot. This will hurt productivity and productivity will hurt workers by far more than the current wage control immigration brings to the table.