Partisan politics has gotten worse

Troi, I've been discussing politics for going near 30 years, Roughly 15 online. I noticed discussions swinging wildly to partisanism, rather than policy, roughly around the Hanging Chad...

Then, after the Invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan, post 9/11 Instantly almost, the entire atmosphere changed to what it must have been like, during Vietnam. Few issues, other than those dealing with war, were being discussed.

The country became polarized.

"You're either with us, or against us". Coffin lid about sealed.

Then came the '08 election.


From there on, anarchy essentially, regarding political discourse.

 

I think the partisan divide became apparent when Bush was *miselecterated* in 2000, and this coincided with the rise of internet access for a large number of US residents.

The divide was always present, but suddenly, we could all express our kooky/extreme views in the new public square.

 

Ditto.

 

Except for abortion (impossible), I an srsly down, though 1st Amendment issues are always my #1 concern, as if you can't speak, you can't reach consensus.

 

I am up for 1,3, 4 and 7. I would say my main issues have to do with banking and some other issues. I don't know a whole lot about ranked systems but from I do know it sounds interesting.

 

****, thanks for reminding me I forgot to include my selections.

I'm up for all but, 5, 6, & 9.

Those topics usually end up as Feces Flinging contests from my experience (net-wide), I I'm not down with that like I used to be.

 

Ya.

5 in particular is hopeless; Israel/Palestine is frankly an easier topic...

Oh but 9 is fascinating!

 

Yep 5 is worse than trying to debate the holocaust taking the position of denial to some people. (No I don't deny the holocaust, just explaining why I am not thrilled with the idea of debating 5 online.)

I haven't debated 6 on his list much so I can't comment there, but 9 can get kind of whacked.

 

It's devolved to the point where we do understand why we disagree.

One group wants to remake America and see's it's entire history and people as something to be ashamed of.

The other group wants America to continue being a country that believes in democracy, freedom, and the Constitution's concepts that built it.

What common ground can those two groups have?

 

I have to agree with you. For me, I saw no better way to help mankind than politics. That may sound naive, but I truly thought I was helping humanity through political discussions. I believed in a Politics similar to Aristotle and Plato. I believed in a politics of humanity. And for a while early on here, I felt like I was participating in that, even with my Third Position views.

Politics was Philosophy, and even if people had different philosophies, philosophy itself is the essential truth. That has changed. And you're right, it got progressively worse. If I "blame" something, I feel like I'd just be contributing to the kind of 'politics' it's become, but I blame Congress most of all. It's a monkey syndrome. If we have a Congress that cannot work for the people, then the people cannot work together. We ourselves must rediscover our common humanity to participate in politics in a healthy, reasonable manner.

 

Yeah abortion is the Kobayashi Maru of debates.

 

So... Wait... If I cheat in a debate RE: Abortion.... I could "win"?!

 

We're all fascinated by Trump?

We either love him, or love to hate him?

Darth Trumper or Luke Trumpwalker, we can't get him out of our heads!

 

It's really quite simple.

Obama wanted to bring the US down to the level of 3rd world countries, so liberals loved him.

Trump wants the US to be a better place than most of the world, so liberals hate him.

 

Was this board a happy go lucky place where everyone debated issues in a reasoned, logical fashion years ago? At least on the political boards I've been on over the years they always have a couple of exchanges before they turn into exchanges of insults. It's the anonymous nature of the internet, but not unheard of. I've read things could get really heated in colonial times with fist fights and hitting below the belt type of insults. So in some ways, nothing has changed. In one book I read about some of the political insults found in Pompey. Not much different than today.

 

Over the decades that I have been posting on political forums it is readily apparent that no one ever changes the minds of anyone else with their arguments. However the OP's point about being able to agree to disagree disappearing is entirely valid and your point about degenerating into name calling is too. This forum is the exception because name calling is an infraction and the staff do a wonderful job keeping that out of the threads for the most part.

Given that we cannot change anyone else we must do what we can to change ourselves. You made the point about "dishing it back plus more" which is only going to exacerbate the problem. Only you can decide to change yourself and adopt the attitude of being the "better person" and "rising above" the petty insults. And yes, it is really difficult when someone is provoking you to just laugh it off. But when you look at the motives of those who are using those insults you realise that they want to drag you down to their level because they can't rise to your level. And therein lies your advantage. There is nothing more infuriating to those who only have personal slurs to offer to have their noses rubbed in the fact that they could not address your points in a reasonable and logical manner. That name calling is their tacit admission of defeat that you have bested them in the debate.

When you change your own attitude as to how you perceive the exchange you don't need to "dish it back plus more" any longer. You succeed by staying above them where they can't reach you. In essence you force them to raise their game to your level. Per Sun Tsu's wisdom never fight on the chosen battlefield of your enemy but rather make them fight you on your own preferred ground where you have the advantage.

 

Spot on.

However, older Hacks like us, seem to still retain our objectivity, & are able to understand that at the end of the day, all we're really doing, is airing our POVs...

Of course, as I'm sure you'd agree, it took us a while to grasp that.

The changing takes time. I fear though, since the last generation, the involvement they have online, only makes things worse, because there are no real "bad" consequences for escalations, aside from bans, & we all know those are easily worked around... So long as you tweak your posting style in addition to masking your IP, & using a different email.

Yep.

 

Yup, the bad old days when it was possible to have more than one id! Can't say that I miss them. This forum is so much more civilized. Yes, it did take a while to learn these lessons and I suspect that is true for all societal changes. Innovations come about and people will exploit them to their own advantage. Then it becomes apparent that there needs to be law and order for effective communication and eventually that comes about as people realize that it is for the benefit of all.

The consequences should not only be what is enforced by the staff. Each of us has the power to shun those who don't know how to play nicely with others. It is entirely possible to be an odious troll without violating any of the forum rules. That is where Cyberia is the most effective tool. When someone tries to troll me I will give them every opportunity to amend their ways but once it becomes apparent that they are not interested in the topic but only in finding a way to goad me I will send them off to oblivion where they can play with themselves as long as I never see another of their posts ever again. There are those who criticize this approach and they are welcome to use whatever suits themselves but I go with what works for me. Life is too short to waste on posts from trolls IMO.

 

A bit of light hearted bickering though, adds flavo(u?)r (I used to mess with Brits that way, as a jab) to the board IMO, but yeah, I practice the same, with obvious AssHats.

Actually, my posting style here, is completely different than at most of he other boards I'm on, due to the fact that the partisanism here, is unlike anything I've seen. I don't waste time making the longer posts I usually do on other sites, because here, it's pointless, seeing as I'm a centrist, & no matter the thread, the partisans ONLY see opposition, no middle ground. Besides, I've learned to "hold some back" in order to help draw out a convo, & hopefully, (for the sake of the thread) grab more eyes, thus more input.

Anyway, we're on the same page.... Different ideologies, but the same book!

 

Agreed!

Long posts are for serious topics.

I find that oftentimes pithy questions are all that are needed to make a point.

 

Yeah, part of my not posting longer posts too, is I don't get to use my PC much due to arthritic issues, & when I actually FEEL like throwing down mentally, the thought of sitting @ my PC makes me sweat!

 

Anyway man, almost 4:20.... Gonna toke, & hit the rack, going upstate after work tonight, , to spend time with my pops. He's doing rough.


Cheers man

 

A fine example of the problem the OP addresses.