North Korea, Trump snatches defeat from the jaws of victory

Babble on...and that's not a city in Iraq

 

Personally I don't think Kim is capable of making a rational nuclear deal but Trump has put him in a box and he may have no choice. It's worth a try and should be attempted before we use the military option of last resort

 

Clever.

Out of breath yet?

 

Trump doesn't rely on his advisors and listens to nobody. After all, he "knows more than the generals" and that being the case he
surely knows more than his advisors. Usually, the experts on both sides meet and negotiate the deal and then the top dogs meet to put their stamp on it and take credit for that deal. This process can take months or years, but our fool in chief has this "Damn the torpedoes
full speed ahead" mentality because he truly believes and says that he is the expert and the only person who can get it done.
And the Trump base eats it for lunch. Bunch of clowns who are easily conned.

 

Now there are no pre-conditions to the meeting between Trump and Kim. For decades, the Kim regime has wanted bilateral talks with the U.S. For decades, the U.S. has insisted on multi-lateral talks involving South Korea, China, Japan, and possibly Russia. Also, before any talks take place, North Korea must agree to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

All of a sudden, due to pressures on the domestic front -- legal problems with a porn star, a senior advisor without a portfolio, 34% turnover rate in the White House, tariff issues that threaten our relations with friends and cost a savvy economic advisor who simply quit, and, last but not least, the ever deepening investigation by the special prosecutor -- the politically naive Trump tossed decades of American foreign policy and agreed to meet with the North Korean dictator, virtually handing the dictator a diplomatic victory.

If Trump gets his way, which many doubt will happen for the simple reason his way is dangerous, infantile, and just plain stupid, the guileless President will be elevating the status of North Korea to a world power. This comes at no cost to North Korea. North Korea is conceding nothing. We have not even heard from North Korea or Kim. This maniacal hoopla is all being generated by Trump.

Oh sure, there is a pretense of pre-conditions, but that is simply a lie, a tactic Trump and the White Houses uses liberally.

Trump's condition for meeting North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is that there will be no nuclear or missile testing, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin said on Sunday.

"There shouldn't be confusion," Mnuchin told NBC's Meet the Press when asked about White House press secretary Sarah Sanders' statement on Friday that there would be no meeting without concrete and verifiable actions by North Korea.

"The President has made it clear that the conditions are that there's no nuclear testing and there's no missiles and those will be a condition through the meeting."

Do we laugh or cry? In the first place there has been no nuclear testing or missile testing since November. Arguing that is a pre-condition is incomprehensible.

In the second place, there is confusion. Trump marching into diplomatic oblivion undaunted by the complexity of the issues combined with Manuchin's lies is creating a great deal of confusion. President Trump will insist on “concrete, verifiable actions” from North Korea before holding a promised summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, the White House said Friday. Press secretary Sarah Sanders repeated the insistence on “concrete, verifiable” steps several times, and asserted that the United States had given up no leverage in agreeing to hold the unprecedented meeting.

Sanders said talks would only happen once the rogue nation takes "concrete and verifiable action" to demonstrate its commitment to denuclearization.

Now who do we believe, Manuchin on Sunday or the White House on Friday? Is Trump wanting it both ways? There are severe pre-conditions and the United States had given up no leverage in agreeing to hold the unprecedented meeting. Or, Manuchin's make believe pre-conditions.

In any case, Trump is making himself look like a buffoon ... again. Once again, he is making a serious miscalculation. Trump is assuming Americans are as stupid as he is.

75% of the American electorate were smart enough not to vote for him. That leaves 25% who did.

 

Ocean really stepped in it that time!

 

Protecting SK does have value.

The idea of blowing that much more wealth on a wall against Mexico doesn't make sense.

 

Says you.

 

Finally, you dealt with the issues I raised instead of talking about me.

Trump should listen to people who have more expertise in an area than he does. Unfortunately, he doesn't and he acts impulsively, as in the case of his rash decision regarding Kim. He took the entire White House by surprise. He has done that several ties in the past.

His self-defeating tariffs on steel and aluminum are still another example, and that cost him a brilliant advisor, Gary Cohn. Because of the serious ramifications of his tariffs and the strong opposition from his own party, Trump is forced to backtrack and he is doing so at lightening speed. Even when he announced the tariffs, he said that Canada and Mexico are exempt. Australia quickly followed.

Of course not. However, Trump is losing a lot of good help. The turnover rate at the White House is 34%. That is a serious management problem. If this were a corporation and it had a turnover rate like that, the CEO would be gone. Trump is an extremely poor manager.

Those results are? Please don't mention the economy. Obama deserves more credit for the economy than Trump. Corporate bosses love the GOP, and Trump did his best to stifle the economy with his boneheaded tariffs. The stock market took off 2 1/2 months before he took office because Republicans won the election.

Don't mention judges. It is the duty of conservative Presidents to appoint conservative judges. It is not an accomplishment.

Destroyed ISIS? They are more dangerous than ever because they have become more illusive.

So, tell me, what results?

 

At this point, the situation involving pre-conditions is very confusing. Some in the White House are saying there are pre-conditions. Others are saying there are none. Trump himself is not concerned about pre-conditions. See my posts on the subject.

I can understand why posters might be confused on the subject. I'm confused. So is everyone else because Trump is showing very poor leadership on the issue. He is busy campaigning in PA.

In other words, he did his damage on this controversy and he has moved on, letting others clean up the mess he created.

 

Since you choose to dismiss results out of hand, I would say the problem is- You.
As I said before- you are a heckler in the audience, with no interest in actually addressing anything real. You seek only to invite dissent, and you will pick any subject and find a way to selectively do that. Your problem..... Is your problem.

 

Results?

 

South Korean official Chung Eui-yong was in the White House meeting with other officials. Trump decided to see Chung right away. Trump “then asked Mr. Chung to tell him about his meeting with Mr. Kim,” reports the New York Times. “When Mr. Chung said that the North Korean leader had expressed a desire to meet Mr. Trump, the president immediately said he would do it, and directed Mr. Chung to announce it to the White House press corps.”

Trump followed that announcement with his tweet.

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

Kim Jong Un talked about denuclearization with the South Korean Representatives, not just a freeze. Also, no missile testing by North Korea during this period of time. Great progress being made but sanctions will remain until an agreement is reached. Meeting being planned!

5:08 PM - Mar 8, 2018

So, you agree with Trump's impetuous decision without consulting his SecState, SecDef, or any of his intelligence directors. You think this is how a President should make a decision.

Is that right? Did I get anything wrong?

 

This was written by WillReadmore. It deserves repeating.

From Kim's point of view, this meeting is a clear and logical next step in meeting his objective of being a world leader.

He now has nukes and a way of delivering them - at least he's done enough to claim that.

Now, he has claims of rapprochement with SK and a clear claim to having initiated a meeting with Trump where the two can sit for photo ops, discussing world trade and security issues together.

And, it's his meeting, as it did not come from Trump - it came from him and was announced by his new best friends, the South Koreans with all executive branch US foreign policy personnel unaware it was even happening.

This couldn't possibly be a better setup for Kim - regardless of what happens next.

What's it going to look like when Trump finally backs out on his acceptance of a North Korean invitation?

To change the subject away from his many domestic problems, Trump is playing with fire. He has no idea what he is doing, and he doesn't care because he is the boss.

 

The whole issue of pre-conditions is confusing due to Trump's extremely poor leadership. Some in the White House are saying one thing. Others are saying the very opposite.

Appearing on NBC's Meet the Press, Mnuchin was trying to be deceptive, but looked foolish instead. "The President has made it clear that the conditions are that there's no nuclear testing and there's no missiles and those will be a condition through the meeting."

North Korea has not had any tests since November. Those are hardly conditions for talks. The so-called conditions are the current status quo. Mnuchin's comments are laughable, but that is the Trump White House.

Moreover, Kim is far enough along on his nuclear weapons development that he can afford to freeze testing for a while. A freeze is not a condition. Variable concrete steps toward denuclearization is a pre-condition for talks. Is that what the White House will eventually ask for once we cut through the B.S. and Trump's initial statements are ignored.

With this White House, who the hell knows.

 

In other words, with Trump, the American President, the leader of the free world, the most powerful man on the planet, is just another negotiator. In other words, what the Kims have wanted for six decades, direct talks with the American President, will not elevate the status of the enemy at no cost to the enemy. For that reason, at least five other Presidents have rejected such talks without prior agreements that involve denuclearization. The least experienced President of them all is right while every President, foreign affairs advisor, secretary of state before him is wrong. And he made this brilliant, spur-of-the moment decision on his own, shocking the entire White House. This is your idea of leadership.

This is what you believe.

You don't have much respect for the Office of the President of the United States.

I checked. You claim to be American.

Leadership is the ability to effect others to do what you want them to do, to effect your goals. Leadership is never doing things others should do. That is particularly true when one is the President of the United States.

 

The part in bold is exactly what he is doing. Regardless of what you believe, NK has been played on the world stage and has very little capability to do much except exhale loudly. The MSM created your boogeyman for you and you put the leash on yourself instead of asking the hard questions about them. You followed their lead and continue to espouse their message instead of realizing NK is a nation that is broke, has nearly no technological capability, and has no capability for long range missile guidance system development. They struggle to make a shirt, yet once the media touted them as some global superpower, you did too. Wake up! Stop letting them tell you how to feel and how to think. Do it for yourself and take the time to do homework instead of assuming MSM is providing you valuable intel.

Did we have long range missile capabilities before we had massive ship and aircraft capabilities? Did Russia? Did China? Think it through. How did they jump from unable to build a car to able to target a major US city, yet unable to build modern aircraft, modern weapons systems, modern artillery, etc.? They DIDN'T! They can't. You've been duped.

And yes, I'm 100% American and serve my country to this day. I also think. I research. I find answers where others fail to look. I understand how to identify an enemy. The military is NOT the answer to diplomatic problems, and I find it odd that so many liberals today just want war with NK after crying over the stupid war we had in Iraq that I agree never should have happened.

This president is making changes others before him were either afraid or unwilling to make. He's rounding up MS13 and other bad guys, he's freeing human sex trafficking victims, he's deporting those who should not be here and who break our laws, and he'll soon back NK back to a peaceful situation, which presidents before him failed to do. I don't like everything DJT, but the dude is getting things done while the left flails around and looks for Twitter quotes and personal stuff in his past. I'm giving the guy props for at least making a difference in the world.

 

Trump may meet with Kim, in which case Kim is the clear winner in achieving a meeting with the US president where the two world leaders will discuss world issues as world leaders do. That's a significant win for Kim and his desire to be considered a world leader.

Or, Trump will claim a bunch of necessary preconditions and back out of his agreement in the face of a Kim meeting offer that Trump accepted.

I don't see what Kim has to lose.

And, I don't see what the US has any chance of gaining. There is NO chance Kim is going to give up nuclear deterrence.

 

The US stands to gain peace between not just us and NK, but other Asian nations and NK. NK stands to remove itself from threat of war and isolation, assuming it sticks to the end agreement. We disagree that it will happen, but NK needs the world far more than the world needs NK, particularly in areas of technology, agriculture, medicine, sciences, etc. Continuing to develop nukes gains them nothing.

 

You seem oblivious to the fact that you provided a list of major results that you refuse to acknowledge are results at all.
Why would I argue with a bag of hammers?

 

Trump's snap decision last week to meet with North Korea's Kim Jong Un shocked the world was the result of Trump being overcome by problems at home. Given the fiery tone of Trump's earlier statements, and his repeated demands that North Korea would have to abandon its nuclear ambitions as a precondition to negotiations, the news of a meeting came as a surprise to those who had taken the President at his word.

That said, few take Trump at his word anymore. He lies and changes his mind far too much. But this time he made a dangerous decision.

Keep in mind, Kim has promised nothing. He has conceded nothing. In fact, he has said nothing. In agreeing to meet with Kim Jong Un, Trump has given the North Korean leader everything he wants. To argue that Trump's acceptance is not a concession that can be exploited is to completely misunderstand the real interests of the North Korean regime.

There are still no pre-conditions for the talks, and the White House is a mass of confusion on that issue. Trump has not stated that there are any pre-conditions. Some of his advisors are making some up, but, because of Kim's silence, they are looking foolish doing that.

Trump is playing with fire this time and he is too naive to know it.

 

No, my position is, Trump should not hand a diplomatic victory to Kim without any cost to Kim. For decades the Kim dynasty has wanted to hold bilateral talks with the U.S. The U.S., for good reasons, for decades has wanted multi-lateral talks that involve South Korea, Japan, China, and, possibly, Russia. Geopolitically, that makes perfect sense. Those countries have a stake in the outcome of such talks.

But Trump, in a spur-of-the-moment decision, tossed out decades of American foreign policy and then went Kim one better. It would not be American diplomats meeting North Korean diplomats. It would be the American President meeting with the North Korean dictator. Kim had to be jumping with glee over Trump's naiveté.

And there are no conditions. Kim has given up nothing. Suddenly, his status is elevated -- he is meeting with the leader of the free world -- and overnight North Korea becomes a world power. At least that is what North Korea, China, and Russia think.

Please note those are all unfriendly powers. Why is Trump doing exactly what our enemies want him to do?

Part of the reason is, Trump does not respect the office. Oh, sure, I'll talk to Kim. Why the hell not? No big deal.

 

Those results are? Please don't mention the economy. Obama deserves more credit for the economy than Trump. Corporate bosses love the GOP, and Trump did his best to stifle the economy with his boneheaded tariffs. The stock market took off 2 1/2 months before he took office because Republicans won the election.

Don't mention judges. It is the duty of conservative Presidents to appoint conservative judges. It is not an accomplishment.

Destroyed ISIS? They are more dangerous than ever because they have become more illusive.

So, according to you, those are Trump's accomplishments. Pretty sparse, huh?

 

Trump was elected because he is not a politician and is thinking outside the political box. His decision to meet with Kim is a timely one and a new approach is needed. The old one was an obvious failure.

 

"Sparse" is the degree of honesty and accuracy in your deeply biased judgment.
As has been said before- if Trump walked on water, your analysis would be that it proved he couldn't swim.
You aren't interested in anything positive- you are the heckler, the obfuscator, the spoiler... and all for personal satisfaction. Small spoiled children reject reality for the same reasons- more important to tell themselves they are right than to be right.

Now I know the finding of the institutions below are not qualified to contest your opinion (at least in your mind, they must be fools if they don't see it your way)
but they dispute your claims across the board. These of course aren't my opinion, they are nationally respected news sources.

Newsweek lists 82 top accomplishments.
Washington Examiner: lists 81
Rasmussen Reports posts "Shockingly long list" (their words)
National Review: Accomplishments since taking office are impressive...

Perhaps if you actually looked for what is right instead of being obsessed with proving everything wrong, you would know about such things.
Now, you can go to those sites and find a reason to discredit everything on the lists by credit them to Obama or Jesus or Ghandi or even- yourself.
Then you can continue to believe your own endless diatribe is correct.

I don't post these to argue with you, nor to convince you of anything. I post it so that the load of bias and hate you post everyday does not go unchallenged and be allowed to poison others.