We Support Donald Trump II

Trump has had a good week aside from the impeachment crap. The sooner we get this over with, the sooner the public can hear about the positive things happening.

 

I wrote and posted this on another forum I am a member of. Just thought I'd share it here. I was responding to a Trump hater who said that Trump WILL be impeached. He also made the claim that the impeachment process is a political process, not a legal process. Of course, the implication is that Congress may impeach and remove a president for anything at all, a narrative we've heard from time to time on this forum as a justification for impeaching Trump.

Yes, he WILL be impeached just as I have been predicting all along.

Impeachment is both a legal and political process, not one or the other. Inasmuch as the Constitution makes provision for impeachment, it is a legal process. Inasmuch as it is carried out by elected officials, it is a political process. It's both.

But what is or is not a "legitimate" action or process is a matter of opinion. We make judgements about legitimacy all the time and on all kinds of issues. Citing examples would be easy, but not necessary. But what we deem to be "legitimate" has to do with what is legal AND what is fair, proportional, and widely accepted.

One thing I am certain of is that a president could do something that crosses so far over the line, that impeachment and removal would be legitimate in the eyes of a large majority, a majority that crosses over party lines. The Nixon case is a good example of that.

The Bill Clinton case is instructive. There was no question that Bill lied under oath. He committed perjury. He also lied directly to the American people. Ordinarily, Perjury would be one of those "high crimes" the Constitution talks about as a reason for impeachment and removal from office. The Clinton impeachment process was carried out legally. The facts were not in question. But ultimately, the idea of removing him from office lacked "legitimacy" in the eyes of the majority of senators in the Senate. Why? Because Clinton lied about a sexual affair. I can imagine there must have been millions of Americans, men and women, who were thinking to themselves that they would probably lie about it too. They could understand lying about that. So in their minds, although the charge was legally correct, the punishment (removal) lacked the legitimacy needed to garner the support for it. And, the votes were almost completely along party lines rather than with any significant crossover.

The Trump case has a different set of facts than Clinton, but the public here is gradually deciding that removal from office is losing legitimacy, the one important thing that is in common with the Clinton case. Let's look at the charges, briefly if possible.

Obstruction of Congress - I think it was Nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, who said he was not going to "play rope-a-dope in the courts" with President Trump over witnesses appearing before his committee. But what that means is that the courts could decide the issue, and Nadler just wouldn't take the time. So rather than take the time to find out if the Obstruction charge was even supported by a high court, he just charged the crime. Is this legal on his part? Yes. But is it legitimate?

Abuse of Power - This is about the phone call to the Ukranian president. I have heard conservative, Trump-supporting people in the media say that Trump should have simply used traditional lines of communication to tell the Ukranians that the U.S. was holding back aid until a good faith effort was made to clean up official corruption in their country, and that the investigation that had been squashed should be reopened and resolved. They say this should have been done without mentioning the Bidens. But they also point out that the effect would have been the same because any thorough investigation of Burisma would inevitably involve the Bidens. Same effect, but with an acceptable method of making it happen. And so, if what Trump did was clumsy and perhaps ill-advised, but could have done differently, this realization lowers the legitimacy of removing him from office for doing it.

Additionally, a lot of Americans think that if Joe Biden is going to run for president, the American people deserve to know the results of a thorough investigation. And any fair-minded person knows that if the shoe was on the other foot, the Democrats would be absolutely insisting that the Ukranians investigate Trump. The public knows this. That is not even debatable. This glaring double standard and hypocrisy also lowers the legitimacy of impeachment and removal.

Other factors ...

There is zero bipartisan support for either impeachment or removal.
The Congress has other lesser actions it could take, like censure of the president. Censure is formal disapproval of an action.
The public understands that the Democrats have been trying to undo the 2016 election through impeachment from Day One. Accordingly, ...
The public does not believe them when the Democrats speak of this "solemn and sad atmosphere" or their "impartiality".
The public has heard Democrats saying that this impeachment is needed to prevent Trump's reelection. Translation: The People are too dumb to decide.
The public has heard Democrats saying that after the Senate acquits, they will impeach the president over and over. For what, nobody knows.
And, the public knows that they can decide if they want to keep or remove this president in 11 short months.

All of the above cuts at the legitimacy of the impeachment. It reminds me of a woodsman with an axe chopping the base of tree. And with each piece of wood that gets chopped out, the tree loses its ability to remain standing, until finally, it topples over. That is what is happening to the legitimacy of this impeachment in the eyes of the public. The glaring double standards, the purely partisan nature of it all, and the seemingly endless effort to undo 2016 - to the exclusion of all else - going on for 3 years now is wearing thin in this country.

Seth

 

Trump will be in Battle Creek, Michigan tonight at 7 eastern-right around the time the shampeachment wraps up.

People have been waiting in line for 2 days already....

https://www.woodtv.com/news/kzoo-and-bc/trump-pence-to-rally-in-battle-creek-wednesday/

 

Folks have been in line since very early morning in Battle Creek--some have been holding their place in line for two weeks. A friend who is at the rally tweeted an hour or so ago that she and her family are already inside and have seats as the venue begins filling up. The rally starts at 7 p.m. Eastern tonight.

Kellogg Center in Battle Creek seats 9800 people plus some standing room, and they are anticipating a large overflow crowd outside. Population of Battle Creek is under 60k.







And the President will be speaking and A.G. Barr will also be on television tonight as the impeachment vote will likely be taken.

 

Worth posting again! One thing I will say is, if Trump had not mentioned the Biden's corruption.. it would have been easier to sweep under the rug. I don't think anything Trump communicates is clumsy or unintentional.

 

The funny thing is, if the Democrats hadn't gone off the deep end over the phone call, nobody would be talking about or thinking about the corruption of the Democrats' leading presidential candidate.

 

"The effect of impeachment is to overturn the popular will of the voters as expressed in a national election. We must not overturn an election and remove a president from office except to defend our very system of government or our constitutional liberties against a dire threat. And we must not do so without an overwhelming consensus of the American people and of their representatives in congress of the absolute necessity."

"There must never be a narrowly voted impeachment or an impeachment substantially supported by one of our major political parties and largely opposed by the other. Such an impeachment would lack legitimacy, would produce divisiveness and bitterness in our politics for years to come. And will call into question the very legitimacy of our political institutions."

Rep. Jerry Nadler, 1994.

The hypocrisy runneth over.

 

The players

 

And the truth

 

More truth

 

Good week for Trump

 

Jic you haters see the light.

 

I like it.

 

Bipartisan vote against impeachment? Where did you get this fake news.

 

The votes against impeachment failed, but the votes against impeachment were bi-partisan. The votes for impeachment were partisan only.

 

I think there will be a tidal wave of us minority voters and dems to vote for Trump

 

Aren't you embarrassed yet?

 

Oh that zany Hil...

 

Hello 2020!!!

 

Honestly , who cares what the dem clowns want ! What do they ever give ?

 

I think this pretty well sums it up-

 

We seem to be at the intermission, where the fist part of the show is over and the self-proclaimed victory is being touted by the real losers.
Now, were waiting to see what comes out of the wood pile next. You know it's going to happen, because they just can't help themselves, they gotta do it. It's all they know.

 

Read this morning that Dems have tried to impeach the last 5 out of 6 Republican presidents. How utterly liberal to try and destroy what they can't control.