Is Confederate flag a symbol of hate?

. . . except that's exactly what they did. This may be the biggest history fail I've seen on the site so far.

Slavery GREW even after agricultural technology advancements like the cotton gin, and the sources from the time period unanimously reject your claim that they saw slavery as becoming obsolete. Moreover, slavery in the South remained popular even in heavily industrialized areas. Forgive me if I trust historical facts and primary sources more than the unsupported claims you made up. I'm sorry you don't like the real answer.

 

Not a cop out at all. First off, I very rarely get offended. Not even your asinine comment offends me. Guess I'm just not thin skinned. I definitely take a to each his own stance. All that said, however, in this case I can understand why this flag may be offensive. What's the cop out about that? Must I find it offensive because someone else does? Or must I take a hard line that it's not offensive and everyone who thinks it is need to man up and stop whining about it? The world is not always black and white. It's ok to think outside the lines of the box your political ideology would paint you in.

 

Swastikas in traditional Buddhist, Hindu, Native American art, etc. =/= Nazi flag. Not remotely the same thing.

And sure, many . . . well, most people who fly the "confederate flag" do so for perfectly benign reasons. It's still historically ignorant, just as it would be historically ignorant to fly the Nazi flag in order to celebrate polka and bratwurst.

 

They wanted to be a separate country where states and territories determined their own futures and live in peace with the Union. Lincoln said no you must stay WITH your slavery intact. You can ignore the history all you want.

Did Lincoln invade the Confederacy to end slavery, yes or no? Was slavery legal in the United States, yes or no?

 

And the Confederate Battle Flag =/= slavery.

 

In order to preserve and spread slavery.

You are trying to change the subject from the Confederacy's motives to Lincoln. Why are you so terrified of the South's actual motives?

I've repeatedly said no to this distraction. Will you now address the motives of the South?

In some areas and not others. I've thrown you a bone and answered your attempts at distraction. Will you now answer my question?

Did the seceding states primarily secede over slavery or not? If not, why did they say they did?

Can you make it through one post without evading?

 

Slavery = The primary motivation of the Confederacy.

 

I think for the vast majority of white southerners the flag is a benign symbol of southern identity much like Yankee identity in Down east Maine, but when you pair Rebel flag with the swastika flag you now have a different meaning.

 

Those who choose to fight for the Union, USA, committed treason against their State that is also in the Union, USA.

 

OMG. You're having a pretend debate, not offering any sources and declaring yourself the winner? LMAO.

 

A main issue for all seceding states was Slavery. It was in all the secession documents. ALL OF THEM.

 

I've had this debate dozens of times on PF. I've cited more primary sources than anyone else in the forums. We can start with the declarations of causes and the cornerstone speech if you want. Then we can move on to things like the letters from the secession commissioners, the constitution of the CSA, and the Crittenden Compromise.

 

Of course it's a symbol of hate, just look at the kind of posts we're seeing of those trying to defend that flag, the act of slavery and the treason the south committed to keep owning black people.

 

If my comment didn't offend you, you would not have referred to it as asinine. You can do better than that. I say it's a cop out because the Confederate flag wasn't the official flag of the Confederacy. I'll bet you any amount you can put up that I can walk down any street in Atlanta where there are plenty of blacks with a real Confederate flag, wave at the people and they will wave back - never having been offended the first time. The propaganda and white liberals conditioning the masses is the only people feign being offended by a freaking flag.

Even if I'm personally offended by what I see in public, I'm not going to get my boxers in a bunch. Some of us have had to fight for the Right to Freedom of Expression and the Right to fly flags, disagree with the powers that be, etc. I may not agree with a person or group, but I would fight to the death for their Right to exercise their Liberties.

 

Totally ridiculous. There was once an executive officer in the civilian militia here. He wore a cap with a Confederate flag on it. He was black.

 

Your avatar is a symbol of hate and we both know that you will cast your vote for the purveyors of slavery. You keep making the same post over and over. Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself?

 

Serious question: Do you believe that the Tea Party Republicans get their boxers in a bunch because people violated a civil infraction the laws that has a maximum penalty of $250 because they entered the country without papers? Do you really believe that the Tea Party Republicans would spend $12,000 to out, find, arrest, house, then try a foreigner for a $250 fine? ALL of their propaganda says that they just want the law enforced. Do you buy what they're saying? OR, could there possibly be another reason - a reason beyond all the written documents that you were not told publicly? Is that even possible?

 

Check out my response to Dairy Air. You seem to be obsessed with this subject. Do you hate white people?

 

I have yet to see you talk about any historical sources. I've mentioned several. And your assumption that acknowledging historical facts would require "hating white people" is your own baggage, not mine. You don't have to deny historical facts in order to like white people. You don't have to hate white people in order to acknowledge historical facts. How is this news to you?

 

So neither of us gets offended by anything. That's good. If the Confederate flag is not the official flag of the confederacy, then no government entity should be displaying one. As far as individual rights are concerned, I'm fine with whomever wants to display it. Free country. I could not care less. Like you, if I am offended by what someone is displaying (rare, but could happen I guess), I just move along. Hell I am not even sure what we are arguing about, other than (I think) that you believe I should not be understanding that some folks may feel the Confederate flag reminds them of an era that saw a lot of inhumanities and atrocities committed. You consider that position a cop out. I consider it one of I don't really care myself, but can understand why. But I also would not tolerate individuals being forced to take it down.

 

I've brought historical facts to the table, which has apparently offended you.

It wasn't an honest question.

Again, that fake argument is your baggage, and a poor attempt to make up for a lack of historical knowledge with fake race baiting.

Again, all you are doing is revealing your own insecurities. All I'm doing is reporting historical facts, and I'm willing to talk about the primary sources if you want. You are unwilling to do so and have concocted the bizarre fantasy that the only reason why anyone would have an interest in historical facts is if they hated white people. That's your insecurity, not mine.

None of my historical arguments have been dealt with or refuted.

Slavery was a big "ado," especially to the seceding states. That's why they seceded. They said so. Repeatedly. Why are you so upset by this fact?

Another fake argument.

Once again, fake.

Fake.

And why should I care about yet another fake argument?

Can you address the historical facts or not? That's a rhetorical question, unfortunately.

 

If you really had an I'm not interested position, it baffles me why you'd stop on this thread. That's all. I don't know of any state (maybe one) that flies anything related to the Confederacy and I couldn't care less if all 50 states flew a rebel flag. Censorship bothers me. But, the topic here is simply this: Is the Confederate flag a symbol of hate? When I was growing up, the Confederate flag never bothered anyone. As a kid, I visited a state legislator who was black. He gave me a state flag and back then our state flag bore a Confederate flag on it. He wasn't offended. I thought it was a big deal. Visit the capitol, see a real legislator and get a flag from him.

What I'm seeing from the people who boast about how much they know about this subject is the lengths they will go to in order to censor white people. The amount of vindictiveness, hatred, prejudice, and intolerance nearly scares the Hell out of me. If my heritage offends anyone then I'm offended that they are offended. And I wasn't born in the south.

 

As a matter of policy, I do not respond to multi quotes. I'll answer some of your questions this once and then move on.

1) You have accused me of being offended. For the most part I'm politically constipated - I don't give a ShXX

2) Your "facts" have been countered on this thread with opposing facts. That seems to offend you

3) Your denial of reality seems to mean that you feel you believe you are always right and infallible

4) Everything you've said has been successfully refuted by other posters

5) Do you READ this thread or just proffer opinions? I've made my position on slavery abundantly clear. IF you were READING the thread, why would you ask a question I've answered more than half a dozen times, the last time within the last 48 hours on this thread? Rather than to keep replying, I could just keep copying and pasting my responses each day. OR you could read the thread.

Everything you dislike isn't fake. Don't try to fool yourself. No matter how good you are, there is someone better. Nobody has a monopoly on human virtue and NOBODY has a monopoly on the facts.

 

1) Your responses prove otherwise
2) None of the facts I've provided or sources that I've provided have ever really been addressed at all, much less opposed. I've cited several primary sources that back me up. No one has ever really addressed them.
3) Another fake argument. I haven't denied reality (in fact, I'm the one citing it against the history deniers) and I've never claimed to be infallible. I've admitted the faults of my arguments when proven wrong.
4) Another fake argument. No one has addressed the fact that the declarations of causes are on my side. No one has addressed the fact that the cornerstone speech is on my side. No one has addressed the fact that the letters from the secession commissioners are on my side. Shall I keep going? Here, let me make it easier: no one who denies the fact that the seceding states primarily seceded over slavery has managed to cite a single historical source that backs them up, whereas I've cited several that explicitly state the opposite . . . from the seceding states themselves. That includes you. You haven't addressed a single historical source. I seriously don't know how to dumb this down any more than I already have.
5) Yes, I do. Which is why I've provided historical sources.

Reality has the monopoly on facts. The facts stand against you. The facts don't just maaaaaaagically change just because they offend you.

 

Yes INDIVIDUALS who fought against their STATES committed treason against them.and at the time.STATES.commanded the higher loyalty.