Why is there so much hate, and why is the country (US) so divided?

No. They are also "deplorables" by dint of their deplorable living conditions, in the same position as (Clinton's) "deplorables", ie the mob who stormed the Capitol, who need assistance to overcome their deplorable living conditions.

On the contrary I have shown once again the "deplorables" on both sides are struggling with deplorable living conditions, proving again:: "It's the economy, stupid". (The dysfunctional free-market economy, that is).

The "deplorables" on the Right include white racists, xenophobes, small government/low taxes, sovereignty of the individual, biblical literalist/fundamentalist types.

The rioters and "deplorables" on the Left include self-haters, and criminals, yes; but the Left's cause is just: an economy that works for all.

Stop blaming the victims of a dysfunctional economic system for their own disadvantage, while at the same time sympathizing with the misled mob who stormed the Capitol.

One only needs a good education to get started. But look at the mob who stormed the CapitoI….god, education in the US is disgraceful.

An economy is more than dog-eat-dog money acquisition; its also good relations between individuals. You still think 'wealth' creation is confined to profit driven free enterprise in a free market,. You did not read the Ellen Brown article at all, evidence of a closed mind.

BTW, Bernie doesn't understand MMT at this stage, so he would go the old-fashioned 'tax-the-rich' method of the Left...but given the soaring inequality ravaging society, at present, a tax-the-rich strategy is not all that bad....

No thanks, that would represent a vast misallocation of resources...

Well, if you read the Ellen Brown article you would be able to figure it out. Example:

"Before the 2008-09 global banking crisis, China’s GDP increased by an average of 10% per year for 30 years. The money supply increased right along with it, created on the books of its state-owned banks. Japan under Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has been following suit, with massive economic stimulus funded by correspondingly massive purchases of the government’s debt by its central bank, using money simply created with computer keystrokes. All without increasing inflation"

Wrong. Money can only be printed and spent if it can buy real resources, or goods and services - or private sector business creation (via "creditworthy loans"), if these things are available for purchase. That constraint applies to government as well as private banks.

Addressed above; the money created in the PBofC over the last 4 decades is certainly not worthless.

Actual vital production is carried out by remarkably few people in a modern post-industrial economy. And much production eg, grog , advertising, gambling, tobacco, is worse than useless, it actually destroys health and therefore costs the community money. (while enriching CEO's of course).

Like the CEO of Coca Cola is "contributing"? The person who cleans the toilets at that absurd factory is worth more than the CEO in that case, because the cleaner is not causing the associated disastrously expensive diabetes and obesity epidemics following the absurd mind-numbing advertising "things go better with (this sugary ***t) and its expensive advertising, transport and sales. See how you need to change your understanding of "contributing"?

An economy that works for all is not a "School of Equal Wealth" and as for "screwing people" , the CEO's mentioned above do that very well.

And then there's the financial "industry" mob, managing money resources that are many multiples that of the real productive economy, with their fancy derivatives: "financial weapons of mass destruction" as famously noted by Buffett, during the GFC.

 

You don't seem to tire of bending things.
The protest at the capitol was demanding audits of election equipment and books. The people were certainly not there to riot- as there were at least 200,000 of them, while only a hundred of two got out of line. Deplorables are the people who label honest protestors rioters, and rioters peaceful protestors.

So you consider freedom deplorable, but dependency admirable- and anyone who doesn't buy the garbage being used to attack the citizens and turn them into drones is your enemy. We already knew that.

I think instead of Sanders U, you should figure out why large businesses succeed. Reason- IS you, and everyone else that wants to buy the product those companies sell. If you drink coke and think it causes diabetes, WHY THE HELL DO YOU BUY IT AND DRINK IT?

People aren't so stupid (at least most of them) that they can't read, and every food product now has all content and nutritional information on it. People do all kinds of potentially dangerous things, BY CHOICE, and against advice. That IS freedom. They race, jump out of planes, play with sharks, drink alcohol, take drugs, and more. Did you know that you can kill a rattlesnake by grabbing it by the tail, barehanded and cracking it like a whip? It works. I did it three times in one day to prove it worked back in the 70's. Did I know the risk? Indeed I did, but I also knew what I was doing. I took an informed risk. You do that every time you get in your car- you consciously chose to ignore the fact you know that car wrecks happen and often kill people. Or maybe nobody ever told you??

The CEO of Coca-cola or any big corporation is doing something very few people can do- navigating a ship of sorts, a huge and very complex operation of people, machinery, materials, logistical issues, regulations and much more. His job is to foresee the future- see potential problems and issues before they happe, to make the decisions that keep the company prepared and positioned- and they have to be right every time. Such people are highly paid because it is those critical decisions that make the company able to maintain a profit, so that the guy cleaning the toilets has a job.

Every employer has been an employee, he understands the position- usually far better than most employees. On the other hand, very few employees have ever been employers, and haven't the foggiest idea or ability to manage a company. You make it quite clear you have no idea what a CEO does. Those decisions keeps jobs open for around 90,000 people at Coke. 375,000 at Berkshire, Buffets' conglomerate company. How many jobs do you think the toilet cleaner is creating?

It appears you also don't question things you read if you want to believe them. Warren Buffet drinks perhaps a dozen cokes a day- and uses them to wash down chocolates made by a company called See's Candies. Buffet's company owns Sees outright, has a major share position in Coke. I've sat in shareholder sessions for years, and he always spends six hours sitting on the stage with Charlie, answering investor questions each year- and he hit the coke and candies all the time. His VP, Charlie Munger- is right beside him, doing the same thing. They both have "sweet tooth", as do I. Buffet is 90 years old- Munger is 97. Both healthy and mentally sharp as a tack, and usually spend an hour walking around with investors early in the morning before the convention starts. I eat candy and drink soft drinks every day to; quite a few. Eat a lot of fast food too. Done it all my life. I have a check-up and the nurse says "I'd die to have your cholesterol numbers". Like most things that we are told are bad for us- the marketing grossly exceeds the facts. Some people are allergic to peanuts; that doesn't mean we all are.
Those that are, just like those who are prone to obesity or other ailments- NEED TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES.

#1 rule- YOU are responsible for all your own decisions. All your own feelings, words and actions. If you don't fully accept that responsibility, you are not in control of your life, and bad things will happen to you.
Nobody else can fix it for you or do it for you- and sh*t will continue to happen to you until you figure it out, and get your butt in the driver's seat.

 

Said without a blush of partisanship... I said deplorable living conditions of both sides - evidenced by the sheer un-washed appearance of the extremist, rioting thugs, whether in the inner city ghetto riots, OR those who penetrated the inner Capitol, are responsible for the riots.

I would be better if you stick to teaching about personal responsibility and personal courage; you are way out of your depth in community and macroeconomic fields.

Freedom and equality of opportunity (not equality of outcome) are not compatible with deplorable living conditions. Full stop.

See above. Stick to your CEO pep talks, you have nothing to offer the community grappling with deplorable living conditions, and you are still praising CEO's who, like the banksters in the GFC, should be restrained in stocks in the public square for all to see...

 

Note this insightful comment on the state of the US, from a Lebanese UN representative:

"This ironic circumstance is summed up by Mohamad Safa, a Lebanese diplomat and Permanent Representative to the United Nations: "If the United States saw what the United States is doing in the United States, the United States would invade the United States to liberate the United States from the tyranny of the United States."

The days of the US as 'world policeman' are numbered....

 

So those who will not take a bath or dress neatly are the victims of their unpaid water bills? Do you really think that you can give pride and self-respect to a person not willing to work for it in the first place?
IF that were possible, people in that condition would no longer exist, because we have been trying to do that for more than 50 years. God knows we've tried. Does not work.

I don't think you have any real world experience in this area- but I do. Read on.

In the early 1970's, I owned two struggling businesses. One was a sub-contract construction company that did interior finishes, on this job- we did the flooring. We joined a coalition of builders with a general contractor, to help the low-income people in our city. This was part of a federal program promoting low income housing. Our proposal was to build quality homes- 100 of them- 2, 3 and 4 bedroom brick homes- in 180 days. The general was a man of great integrity, and persuasive in convincing us to participate. We all worked cheap to help, and managed to get selected over the bidders who wanted to construct cheap housing. Federal support for the project came from an application by a black minister. Administration of the project was in the hands of a black staff, something done widely in the effort to promote blacks to higher positions in our economy.

With Federal subsidy, people could apply to rent one of these homes cheaply. The rents were calculated by taking their incomes and deducting all other expenses and allowances, and what's left would be their rent. The houses were being occupied as quickly as they were finished, so the first took place in less than 30 days. Average rent- about $30. Some people actually had a negative number and got paid to live there. Open market rent on such property at that time would have been $350-$450.

Around the end of the fourth month, the general contractor was getting a lot of complaints from the administrators. One after another- these proved to be abuse, such as the trees that died... which had been run over when cars were parked in the yard instead of the drive. The failed storm window, which a tenant had beaten up with a hack saw and hammer to install his air conditioner. It kept getting worse. As the project finished- I got a letter from that administration group demanding we replace all 100 floors, including sub-flooring we didn't put in, because- some were failing. I got some people together to do an inspection of vacant units. None from the project administrators; we already knew their agenda. I got an architect, a representative from the flooring manufacturer, and another flooring contractor not involved in the job. Four of us, all experts in our fields. I had a master key. The project was spread over three locations. the inspections would be of 10 homes, selected at random. Vacant homes had a warning notice on the doors, easy to identify. None of the homes could have been occupied for more than 5 months.

One of the ten could have been ready to re-rent with a normal clean-up. Just one. Another had hundreds of holes in the sheetrock. The tenant who left or was evicted simply took a ball bat to the house. Another house caused you to reel back in nausea as you opened the door. This tenant has pissed down the heating vents in winter. Smashed light fixtures, beat up kitchen cabinets. Filled the kitchen sink with water- and left turds floating in it. The next house wasn't physically destroyed; there had been a murder there. Graffiti on the walls- not sure, but some of it appeared to be in blood. Blood splatters all over that room, more in a bathroom. Then we came to a house where the floors were indeed damaged- in every room. I knew it was water damage, but asked a neighbor if he knew what happened. Yes; seem the tenant was selling drugs there, and the administrators had disqualified him and told him to move. Before he left, he put a garden hose in the window and turned it on. 9 out of 10 houses less than 5 months in use needed serious to major restoration.

So when I attended a meeting between contractors and the administrators, I brought this up- That the problems reported were not defects, but the result of the class of tenants they were accepting. While I made no reference to race in any way, the project did have about 95% black occupancy, and, black administration. On that comment, I was ordered to leave- to "get out!" by the administrators.

Around the nation at that time, there were a great many projects like this- hundreds of them- billions of dollars, following the "Great Society" initiative of Lyndon Johnson. My experience wasn't an exception- it was the norm, all over the nation. News on the negative return was mostly played down to keep from making the effort to help low-income people look like the failure it was. Today, I don't know of any such projects left. Some have been demolished because the cost of damage, and repairs exceeded any value. Others, like the one I participated in, sold off as private residences as our city declared it had had enough.

This is exactly what you are saying is the solution- give people a better environment, they become better people. NO, they don't. I think they get worse; they think that if society can give them a new home free, why aren't they getting a new car and cash too? IF society agrees that it is their obligation to take care of such people, to pay their way, why don't they do it right? It's very much like enabling drug addicts. You aren't helping them solve their problem- you are making it unnecessary for them to solve the problem. What's more, you aren't providing enough money, and they feel you are short-changing them. It's a lose/lose relationship.

We do need to stay out of people's way, not interfere with their efforts to improve themselves. Not bar them from opportunity, not punish them for failure- and give them moral encouragement. Beyond that, it is up to them. Some will grow- some won't. I firmly believe that if we stopped taking their responsibility away from them, far more would be successful- but never all, and we must accept that is their choice. I love to see people succeed, see them happy and strong. Those are the kind of people that can build a great society, the kind we need to make a better world... which by coincidence is the nom de plume you chose.

Now it is a sad thing to accept that so many people could be productive and self-sufficient, but simply will not. It's hard to accept that you cannot change that for them- and harder yet to accept that if you try, you will probably make matters worse. They don't "choose to be poor".... they just don't choose to be anything more. When you "help" them, you prove to them that they don't need to make that choice- and you will become the person they blame for whatever they feel is still lacking. YOU are the one who stepped up to take responsibility for their welfare. When you don't do it to suit them, they will blame you. Their is no gratitude, no inspiration to improve themselves, and none of the things you think will change- are going to change. You, and all government fail to understand the difference between a hand-up and a hand-out, and the latter never works.

Many of those "unwashed" people in riots are not from bad environments at all- but are spoiled rich kids, rejecting the values that their parents represent. They look like crap in part because it is the opposite of what their parents looks are; it is one of many forms of rebellion and rejection they express. Parents who give their children too much, make it too easy, who make it unnecessary for them to learn to stand on their own, create such spoiled adult children. The parents have the best of intentions, providing all the worldly needs- but overlooking and not understanding the need for their children to grow strong and independent.
A child well-raised no longer needs his parents by the age of majority- he/she can cut it on their own. But that child will be forever love them and be grateful for the strength their parents bred into them.
One who is given everything and never has to struggle- will forever resent the parents for what they failed to give; the ability to stand alone, and thereby the self-respect that can't be acquired any other way.
This is how the human species works. Attempts to change that only screws things up.

My parents are buried under a double headstone. On either side, there is a separate granite slab added later that lists the values they taught my brother and I, and how grateful we are for what they gave us.
Thankfully, I also told them many times while they were still alive. It just wasn't enough, and so I expanded their monument, in the hopes that people who pass by may realize what makes a difference for their children in the long run. This was the gift that lasts a lifetime, that any parent rich or poor can give- IF they have it and understand it.

It's unfortunate that you do not understand this. Do yourself a favor- read this again. Try to understand what I'm telling you.

 

We have covered this before.

The fact is the profit-driven, private sector free market alone CANNOT provide employment for all, owing to competitive price pressures in markets, and the price of labour itself. Full-stop.

Now you don't recognise this, because you take the current free market orthodoxy as a given.

In fact it is this market orthodoxy which is the very reason why "we have been trying to do that for more than 50 years".......and failed.

Hence you are are looking to the individual to solve the problem.

But when schools are failing to teach the meaning of "patriotism", you will have some of the unwashed only too ready to "go to war" against the "traitors" , which is a particularly acute problem in the US at the moment.

Strikingly noted - with some humour - by a UN Lebanese representative:

"This ironic circumstance is summed up by Mohamad Safa, a Lebanese diplomat and Permanent Representative to the United Nations: "If the United States saw what the United States is doing in the United States, the United States would invade the United States to liberate the United States from the tyranny of the United States."

A slight detour, sorry, to emphasize the critical need for civics education, which segues into an examination of your following comment:

What you were fighting here is the free market system which leaves many without an adequate education, and basic living skills. You certainly have my sympathy in that particular case; the black administrators should have immediately recognised the problems associated with low self-esteem, and rejected applicants who did not demonstrate a basic standard of personal responsibility.

But we have a terrible 'chicken and egg' situation: and until government can offer a guarantee of above poverty participation - OUTSIDE of the private sector free market when necessary, the awful manifestation of social breakdown we see in BLM riots and "patriot" riots will continue.

BUT A JOB GUARANTEE, OUTSIDE OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR, IS NOT WELFARE. IT IS THE MEANS TO ELIMINATE WELFARE.

True, but if the parents can't take responsibility, then the community (via government) will need to step up, if we are to escape the cycle of poverty, dependency, and community violence.

I do understand, and as you can see (I hope) I agree with much of what you say, including points I have not commented on here.

But I don't believe we have the choice to merely accept the status quo and hope society will somehow survive without direct government intervention, for the reasons outlined above.







.

 

There is no way to provide employment for all, because many do not want to be employed. They do want the money- but not at the price of having to work for it. Those with pride and self-respect won't take welfare- but those who lack it will, and tell themselves that it owed to them. Giving people who do nothing to earn it isn't employment, it's welfare in disguise. It's quite possible to provide employment for all willing to work and earn. Unfortunately, all are not willing to work and earn- many fully expect the people who feel sorry for them to just pony up the money.

Your concept of full employment is really a mix of people working or coasting and all getting paid. The incentives of such a system promote coasting and discourage working. You seem to think people will ignore that, and feel good about having money they earned given to those who earned none in the name of social justice. If you do- you don't know people, including yourself.

The market hasn't failed for 50 years, that's just part of your distortion. When employment gets down to around 3-3.5%, you're at the bottom of the barrel, out of all the people who want jobs at all, let alone those who want jobs to work at. It's unfortunate, but that is the human condition- and you can't change it. That's not the fault of business or any government plan. Any individual in that position can change it anytime they want too- but you have absolutely no control over it.

People make things, including their own character as well as jobs. A job is a business arrangement, where another party agrees to purchase something you wish to sell at a price and terms you mutually agree to.
If I'm trying to build a company, I'm looking for things that will help build it- and I will pay for that. But I will not pay for things that dilute it, make it harder to build, and harder to pay the good men fairly. We don't "give" people jobs- we hire productive men and women. People that earn their money also earn something just as important- self-confidence, self-respect and pride.

Business is not a welfare or social service agency, and there are other parts of government and society to take that role. Those places may give out money- but it's not free. They take self-confidence, self-respect and pride from those who accept it. It's hardly the same kind of exchange.

You almost sound like you think schools should teach patriotism. I think their first responsibility is to not attack it, which they have been doing for decades with a lot of liberal help.
What is a traitor? Anyone who turns on their own nation and it's values with the intent of harming it. Do we have traitors here right now? More than our share. You seem to be supporting them.
Has the US created it's own problems with this? Yes. That comes from allowing the liberals the very freedom and free speech that they now think they can deny to all who disagree with them- failing to put a stop to a malignant disease before it got out of control. They have already declared a war on America. I'm quite sure they intend to escalate it to take absolute power- and bring us absolute corruption. And I won't be surprised if they find a lot more opposition than they planned on. But make no mistake... it was those people who planned this, from the attacks on Trump to the riots around the nation to resurrection of racism and the promotion of hostility and victimhood in the black community to the plots of political censorship.

You keep assuming that al people want to take part- and that will never be true. All want to benefit, but the production part has much less appeal. You are not speaking of employment or participation in the economy at all- you are talking about subsidizing those will not participate. You can re-invent welfare as something else- but that will change nothing but the name. The effect will be the same, and the people taking it will know it.

Consider the concept of character and self-regulation to respectable values. All the actions of society are related directly to this. Honest people don't steal- not because they are afraid of arrest and punishment, but because their character demands they respect the rights of others. This is true in the desire to give a day's work for a day's pay, and in all their behavior. It's like a social vaccine, where all that have it regulate themselves in ways beneficial to society overall. These people could work together, build together- accomplish all kinds of wonderful things, fairly and equitably. This is why I support and encourage the things that build character. The BLM and riots (and don't Washington a riot while you call the others "peaceful protests") are the products of people devoid of character and self-respect. These people are hardly helping with anything, least of all improving America. They are the domestic enemies of our nation.

You think we can by-pass that and get good results by giving things to people. All that does make the task of building a better world impossible.
For some, there comes a point in life where people recognize what their power is- and get smart enough to stop trying to control things they have no power over. They will also then realize what things are in their control, and make those things work far better. I don't think you have reached that point. You do not have control over these people you think we should "help". They aren't in control of themselves either- so they have no direction, no destination, no purpose. IF you leave them alone, they will either figure it out, or not- but you will not be the source of beneficial change.... only of harm and confusion and enabling.

Stop wasting your time and mine telling me what a great idea you have. You are dead wrong.

 

This is about the only sensible post I have read on these pages. It's so refreshing to read straight common sense than to struggle through utter nonsense both from the left and what passes for the right.
When you find that a college student places Uruguay in the middle of Australia you know that you are not in the 'Greatest Nation' of the world.

 

Blame Obama, he started the hate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The author is right:

 

Your view of human nature is largely self-justifying, since you are already managing well within the current economic arrangements, and as well you have drawn inaccurate conclusions from your own experiences re the motivation of others. But we have a SYSTEMS problem.

Obviously everyone would rather contribute, since doing nothing is not part of human nature; and Marx's observation was correct: "From each according to his ability....." (but the second part: "to each according to his need" , was insufficiently aware of human nature).

No. My concept of full employment is "all hands on deck" to promote the nation's welfare. Wages determined in the competitive private sector free market are only one source of reward relevant to the nation's prosperity.

Correct. But private sector business ALONE is insufficient to achieve the nation's welfare.

The nation's welfare is more than money; it includes allocation of resources outside the private sector markets. And just as sunshine is 'free', so is the transfer of knowledge from teacher to student 'free', since the 'resources consumed' - ie, time and mental effort of teachers and students - are 'renewable'/unlimited (once the infrastructure is in place).

Self confidence and self respect will often have to be taught by the state, given the present sad state of affairs. In fact they should be taught by the state, since even the best parents may be a source of outmoded ideas.

You of course think Muslim leaders should not have to acknowledge the errors in the Koran, and ditto for our own politicians re the errors in the Old Testament. So I don't have a lot of confidence re your concept of 'patriotism' beyond self-justification..... but nevertheless it is a vital topic requiring a full civic examination. Just look at the role of false 'patriotism' in the Capitol riots, for an example of the ultimate misunderstanding of "patriotism".

The free enterprise system itself - with well-paying middle-class jobs disappearing over decades - is breading traitors.

If the free market system had kept producing sufficient well-paying middle class jobs, the hyper-partisan "traitors" despoiling the nation would not have appeared. "It's the economy, stupid".

The rest of the world is certainly glad to see Trump gone; his unilateral tariffs on friend and foe alike were disgraceful; but admittedly Trump, (for MAGA) was attempting to deal with a global free market which is is inadequate both nationally AND internationally, hence his currency and trade wars.

But given the current state of western economic orthodoxy, and current international economic affairs - with the WTO not even currently functioning, due to Trump's "patriotism" .... it's understandable why Trump's MAGA has attracted a lot of "patriots" in the US.

At this stage of history, those qualities must be taught by the state - for 'free' (as explained above), given the sad state of basic civics education in our blind-leading-the-blind hyper-partisan community.

The "best things in life", including crucially a complete civics education, are literally free, and this is the basis of building a better world.

"Civilisation is a race between education and catastrophe" .

Education is the best idea ever...and it can be free, ie, paid for by the state, without taxation or borrowing (after the infrastructure is built) since education, a renewable resource namely the transfer of knowledge from teacher to student, is not limited by money, but resources. This is your first lesson in MMT. It's free.....

 

But- at age 38, I was broke- just bankrupt, just divorced, just diagnosed with cancer, needing surgery, and had no insurance. I had failed in my first business attempt- failed to understand management. Failed to understand how to use my own power; failed to be able to accurately judge those I hired and did business with- and the decisions I thought I carefully made had too many flaws.
I spent that winter living in a storage space where I has some furniture stored. A sofa bed, a space heater, a microwave and old refrigerator. Took what served as a bath in a janitor space in the end of the next building. It had a toilet and big floor sink.
Just as I had started my first business at 26 with a few tools, an old pickup and my last paycheck- I started over. I literally got work by going door to door. I negotiated a payment plan with a surgeon and the hospital, for my cancer; there was no money to rent anything. I paid all my own medical bills- I also went back to the bank who lost money in my bankruptcy on the day it finaled, borrowed the amount they lost from them and signed the check over to them. I paid all that off, got a cheap apartment and began rebuilding my life. Never took a dime in aid or help from anyone.

Through the events around that time- I also learned the fundamental principles that I have lived by ever since. They are responsible for me being able to overcome my own weaknesses- and go on to found 7 more successful businesses which have made myself, my brother and a nephew millionaires. What you conclude depends on your point of view. While I certainly found there was a lot of injustice in life, I never blamed that for my failure- I blamed myself, for not knowing how to play the game better. Had I blamed the system- I would have never found the power to change that, and I would still be broke.
Inaccurate conclusions?? I'd suggest you look to your own perspective, and what you have been able to accomplish by blaming others for failing to provide for you.


"Obviously everyone would rather contribute, since doing nothing is not part of human nature". Generally- that's a load of BS the way you mean it. People may not want to "do nothing"- but that is hardly the same as wanting to do the work needed to be productive. They want to party, they want to have things, they want to drink, eat, make love and do whatever they want to do- but working for a living is not on that list for the majority of people. Those with pride and self-respect will be there and participate that way; those who lack it may work, but they will always see it as unjust, and some kind of slavery. They are not volunteers; it is only necessity that makes them go to the job each day- and their work reflects the attitude. Guess which ones get the promotions?

While I certainly do enjoy work, what I have done is work at becoming financially independent enough that I can do the work I want to do- not what I have to do to make a living. Expand the "work" that is fun. I've designed and built one boat totally from scratch, done major modifications to a couple others. I'm a hands-on inventor; part of my business involved developing prototype products . Hard work at times- but like a hobby, it's not really work. We all want to do that. A few of us are lucky enough that what we want to do for fun is also marketable- but even a musician has to meet schedules, play and smile when he has an obligation but doesn't feel like it- because he's also working to make a living

How we think controls what we see, what we think and what we conclude. Consider that aspect of mental function like it was a measuring device built into your subconscious- an element you were not consciously aware of or in control of, that dictated what was visible to you as a list of options and alternatives.
You never observe what it won't let you see, and you draw your conclusions from what you do see. Like a multiple choice question that leaves out the correct answers- you are never going to be right, and you are sure it can't be you. It's not a failure to understand the options- it's a failure to understand the fact you can't see all of them. You have no idea what this has hidden from you.

That applies to most of the stuff you are trying to prove, and of course so long as you use the same yardstick and scales, you won't see things any other way. I've been down this road a thousand times with a thousand people, from kids in reform schools to drug addicts to major corporate CEO's. I can tell you that the great successes understand this- but the whiners never do, and they aren't interested in learning, because they can't afford to be wrong.

Go away and think on this, see if you can at least get yourself to where you can suspect that your perception may be deceiving you.

Nobody can prove you wrong using the yardstick you use for yourself- because you won't question the yardstick.

 

You are still using yourself as the yardstick; the millions of people who have to take various cleaning jobs, and other menial - though very necessary - tasks to put their kids through college, is legion.

I guess I'm advocating for the 'common man'.....

And btw (harking back to the 'systems' problem that concerns me, but not you..) I reject the economic orthodoxy that sees us as mere consumption units.

I think the goal should be to minimize consumption to that which is needed for good health...which would straight-away collapse the junk-consumer economy by eliminating $trillions in unnecessary expenditure of resources......education will play a key role.

And you still haven't commented on the greatest community gift of all, education, which is a renewable resource, and hence 'free' (after the infrastructure is in place).

 

Yes, I am using my own beliefs as a yardstick- but with solid foundation. I have dramatically changed my fundamental yardsticks, which came from recognizing that they must be faulty- because they were producing inconsistent and flawed results. Now- they produce consistent and positive results. One should suspect that if your ideas do not work- there is something wrong with the way you see things. When they do work well, you can be pretty sure they are right.

Institutional education free?? Except for- salaries of teachers, buildings, maintenance, utilities, books, and a long list of overhead that applies to any place that is open regardless of students coming.

The true free education school is open right now; it's open 24/7, and all kinds of successful people are willing to share the secrets of success without asking for a dime.
For a very small investment in books, or for nothing other than your internet service fee- you can learn the majority of the worlds most valuable ideas. You can learn in detail how Warren Buffet made his fortune, how things were invented, the fine details of chemistry and processes, how fine machine work is done, how to write, how to get published, how to make your grass grow. What you can't learn is that school (or any other) is how to get off your butt and get motivated. Without that- you don't have squat, you won't learn squat, and you will never be more than squat.

There may be a class entitled "How to get off you butt and care", but I've never seen it. In order for education to take place- a teacher or source of knowledge is simply not the whole answer. You must have a student eager to learn. IF you find such a person- even if there is no school, that person WILL learn, because they are driven to learn. They are hungry for knowledge. They will gain it from observation, from logic, from books, or by asking wise people to share it.

There is a huge advantage to learning for such a person; they aren't an empty vessel that accepts things at face value- usually taught by "experts" who have never actually proven their own materials.
As one of my first businesses grew, it was such that I would often find myself meeting exceptional entrepreneurs. I always recognized and showed respect for their accomplishments, and asked them how it was done. I was in a meeting with Frank Barton, the founder of Rent-A-Center. They grew so fast that they doubled the size of their first headquarters office while it was under construction- three times. My company was installing special grounded computer room flooring, I had also met Frank once briefly through a friend.

So I asked him one question- How have you managed this incredible growth? He was a modest man; he said "The secret is in middle management, the regional people... All we do at the top is make decisions."
Then, he looked me straight in the eye and said- "Of course, they have to be the right decisions."

Now I doubt that means much to you- but what he was saying is that top management is the navigator of the company's ship, and everything and everyone that is part of the company or invested in it depends on the accuracy and wisdom of those navigational decisions. He told me- that above all else, the decisions you make will control the destiny before you. It's as true of your life as it is for that company. IF you fail to be a competent navigator of your own affairs, you wind up lost or at least never at the destination you hoped to achieve. That one line is worth a great deal. I got it by asking, you get it free. I use it religiously- you will probably blow it off.

Barton died quite a while back. He left an endowment to fund the Barton School of Business at a university, I think it was $100 million. Thus- he continues to offer those who aspire to be more the wisdom of a person who has already been there and succeeded.

Education, 101:
1. Want to be successful, make life work? GET HUNGRY. Everything you need to know is readily available.
2. Stop looking for reasons why you can't, start looking for the ways you can.
3. Make a life plan, an objective- the place you want to navigate to, so you will have a course to follow.
4. Follow the plan.

* Note- No hunger, no ambition, no responsibility... no success. Always true.

 

That's all good, but the COUNTRY needs good leadership as well.

Wade Davis, professor of Anthropology, has written a book "The Unravelling of America", in which he points to the nation's failure to continue to create sufficient well-paying middle class jobs as it did in the immediate post war years in the 50's and 60's, when anyone could go to school, get a job with a wage sufficient to raise a family, buy a house and a car, and the wife could properly raise the kids at home, all with one bread-winner.

Not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur.

The nation's students will come, education is compulsory.

Now, after the infrastructure is built, the sovereign currency-issuing government no longer needs to call on scarce material resources because the transfer of knowledge from teacher to student is a renewable resource requiring time and mental effort, not physical resources.

Therefore the currency-issuing government can fund the teachers salaries by simply changing the digits in the bank accounts of the teachers ie creating money 'ex nihilo', rather than taxing the private sector (the citizens - you and me).

[MMT is simply a matter of allowing for public sector resource allocation alongside allocation by private sector markets. The fact that education is largely a renewable resource is just one aspect of resource allocation].

Like I said, you are only considering education as a school for business entrepreneurs.

Education needs to be much more than a business school; much more important is teaching civic values, personal mental and physical health....AND why the economy is no longer producing sufficient well-paying middle-class/working class jobs to maintain social harmony, to avoid the community descent into political hyper-partisanship....and the "unravelling of America"....

1. Buffett is a genius investor, you can learn how he did it, but you won't build his fortune... and apparently he is still driving an old car and doesn't consume much more than me...

2. The other topics are all useful, depending on one's interests; and I have already said public education MUST teach "how to get off your butt and get motivated" including the related physical and mental health issues...... which are NOT being taught at present BECAUSE it would collapse the junk consumer society which supports much of the corporate/business sector of society. Think about that for a while...

Addressed above. The government needs to play a greater role in setting a much larger civic values curriculum (including politics, macroeconomics, microeconomics, comparative religion, personal mental and physical health, etc, to avoid the insane political partisanship which is wracking the democracies at present.

Exhibit One:

Ashli Babbitt, woman killed in Capitol riots, described as patriot who 'loved America with all her heart' | Fox News

(The above is a link)

Her brother-in-law, Justin Jackson, similarly characterized Babbitt to NBC7 as "extremely passionate about what she believed in," and one who deeply loved the United States.

Much of that zest and vehement Trump advocacy was reflected in her Twitter account. She used the display name "CommonSenseAsh" and described herself as a veteran, Libertarian, and Second Amendment supporter in the biographical section.

Her page was peppered with allusions to the fringe, right-wing extremist conspiracy theory movement known as QAnon, often retweeting its accounts and donning a Q-inspired shirt.

"Nothing will stop us….they can try and try and try but the storm is here and it is descending upon D.C. in less than 24 hours….dark to light!" she wrote in one post, and in others touted #StoptheSteal retweets as well as calls for California Gov. Gavin Newsom to be recalled.

My God, heaven save us, and the victims, from this grotesque tragedy, or better yet may the government educate us.....just to return our discussion back to the topic of the OP....

 

How does anyone come to the conclusion that everything has to be provided? That what ever you do, it should be enough to give you a comfortable living? If you are a lousy fisherman, the fish should come and jump in your boat because it's not your fault? I was there in the 50's and 60's. It's a hell of a lot easier now than it was then. In the 1950's my parents ran a small grocery, a family store. As supermarkets came into existence, that market tightened- and both my mother and father worked 16 hours a day 7 days a week for three years without a day off. My brother and I rode bicycles across town after school to help in the evenings, and worked weekends too. Grass is always greener somewhere or sometime else? You haven't a clue.

Wants to isn't the choice- because everyone IS an entrepreneur. Having a job IS a small business, only with a shitload of perks and protections the employer never gets. It's a highly entitled position.
Business is trade, exchange of products or services for money. When I buy materials for my business, I shop for the best value and service. I'm PURCHASING them. The business I buy from is SELLING them.
They have to compete with other sellers- just as I have to compete with other sellers to sell my goods.

When someone works for us, they offer their services and I'm PURCHASING those services. NOT buying the person- buying the product the PERSON IS SELLING. How good that product is as well as how hard it is to find determines what it's worth in the marketplace. SAME rules I face when I sell the products made with the services I buy from those small, privileged entrepreneurs you call "employees". Except- I get no guarantees or benefits, and I accept all the risk. An "Employee" has a very sweet deal. Whether he has a good product to sell is totally within HIS control, and unlike me- he doesn't have to rely on someone else to make that product valuable. HE has the power to perform and be valuable, if he chooses.

He also has the right to sell his product to the highest bidder. He can quit selling to me anytime he chooses- and if he thinks his product is worth more than he agreed it was when he took the job, then he needs to go find a new customer... a process I do everyday of the year. Same thing is true if his customer decides to buy somewhere else.

His employer IS NOT a wet nurse or a social service agency created to change his didies and make sure he doesn't go hungry- THAT IS HIS JOB. If the doesn't choose to do it well- it is his fault, nobody elses.

Let me know when you get that to work in our current school systems, where attendance already is compulsory. Ever hear that Einstein quote about doing something over and over but expecting different results?
[/QUOTE]

 

From the hunter-gatherer societies onward, , everyone has always contributed, initially according to ability, but as technology developed, according to the dictates of the local power structure.

That your preferred free markets can't/won't function on behalf of the common welfare is not my fault.

So you have no insights at all to offer, re the grotesque tragedy of Babbitt's death, the result of blind uncomprehending ideology - in her case, Libertarianism, and US "patriotism".

And so now the national guard - that's right, the US military - is sending 20,000 troops to D.C. for the inauguration......

 

1. More on the neoliberal, neo-Keynesian mainstream orthodoxy which has imposed government austerity and hence wrecked prosperity for the common man, over the last 4 decades.......the real reason for the present hate, political dysfunction and hyper-partisanship destroying the nation's social fabric.

OECD is apparently now anti austerity – warning, the leopard hasn’t changed its spots – Bill Mitchell – Modern Monetary Theory (economicoutlook.net)

(The above is a link).

"Last week (January 4, 2021), a number of stories emerged reporting an interview that the OECD Chief Economist had given the Financial Times where she said that governments should not invoke fiscal austerity until well after the pandemic was solved.

I read in one article that her comments “mark a U-turn of sorts for the OECD, which favoured austerity post the global financial crisis. Now, the economist … is calling for the continued use of fiscal policy up to two years after growth has bottomed out and ditching the “one-size-fits-all fiscal rules” (Source).

I wouldn’t be jumping to that conclusion.

The Financial Times published an article based on the interview last week (January 4, 2021) – OECD warns governments to rethink constraints on public spending.

The OECD economist claimed that “the public would revolt against renewed austerity or tax rises if governments sought to quickly return deficits and debt to pre-pandemic levels.”

So fear of revolt rather than incorrect economics.

She admitted that the OECD and other organisations were wrong in the aftermath of the GFC to impose austerity:

(continued)


Not surprisingly the mainstreamers are already sounding warnings about the size of Biden's rescue package, which they claim will lead to higher taxes to service the debt, when inflation and interest rates rise.

All because they are wedded to the idea of money creation being confined to private banks in the the private sector free market economy.

As if the public sector cannot play a role in the nation's development....

 

The public sector IS playing a role in the nation's development- and that role primarily retards it. The people who want to believe that the only reason they are poor is that someone else is rich never stop inventing reasons why they can't succeed and why that is an injustice rather than their own failure. They demand politicians fix that, politicians make promises they can't keep and produce compromises that can't work- and the endless increase in regulations that choke the economic engine more and more; ham-stringing growth, feeding the dependence of the people who chose to be weak and perpetuating their illusion of victimhood.

The problem you have is that your solution is to apply more of what does not work (and we know that because we have been doing it for many decades in dozens of ways) in the belief that if we double down on a failing plan it will become a winning plan; that if we remove the motivation to be productive by giving people fish everyday, they will all then be encouraged to learn to fish and be eager to work everyday- so that their catch can be taken by the government and distributed to more people who would work hard if we just removed all incentive and personal pride from their lives.

Brilliant.
What could go wrong with a plan like that??

A million people telling us how to succeed, how to build wealth and self-respect, independence and strength, and you piss on their advice... and you go with the plan that depends on other people to carry your water for you.
Bound to work.

 

Madness. The Chinese economy, managed by the government, is the only major economy that showed positive growth in 2020.

Meanwhile, even after 4 years of Trump, we saw a Capitol rioter shouting: "We pay their (ie, politicians) wages, and they give us nothing".

Wake up, the neoliberal economic system itself is sick.

It's not their failure, it's the system's failure.

You are sounding like a tea-party simpleton, ...tea ...taxed enough already....but the government doesn't need their money, that's just the sick system which insists everyone compete equally in private sector markets, regardless of natural ability.

(naturally resulting in equality of competition with many losers, rather than equality of opportunity where everyone prospers at a socially acceptable minimum level.

Then those riots go away, because that guy will be successfully fending for himself.

That's correct...because the system is designed to enrich private banksters, and those who can successfully pay the private banksters' loans back. Politicians are just pawns in an evil system they don't understand.

No. My plan requires everyone to usefully contribute to the nation's well-being.

 

There's a good chance that my income taxes exceed your total income. Yet, I get no more benefits in return for my money that you do.
That's "useful contribution", despite the fact the government will waste half of it. Useful from your point of view, in that it provides someone else paying for what you get.
But, it's never enough, is it?

What your plans needs is a soap box, a robe and a sign saying "The End is Coming Soon if I don't get my way"- And of course, a street corner.

You can't get anything more out of the pot than the total of what people put in; there is no magic genie that will start making free money appear.
You don't need more than a grade school education to know that is absolute and consistent reality.
Every "great plan" like yours is little more than a scheme to take money from people who earned it and redistribute it to people who didn't.
That's also known as "Theft". Such plans invariably depend on that principle, which makes them nothing more than gift wrapping on a swindle.

You are the one sounding like a simpleton- someone who simply ignores all the reasons their grand idea can't work.

The entrepreneurs, the businessmen, the industrialists, the financial people are the ones who make things happen and make jobs available for everyone else. They have to be good to survive, very good to come out with profit. So- if you think they have it so easy, why don't you become one of them? Because of course- you are pretty sure you aren't good enough to cut it, or you just lack the ambition to do for yourself. You would rather someone else take the risk, then say you deserve a share of their profit as well as what you agreed to work for... but you don't want invest or share in the risk or loss. They owe you; you never owe them. It's always a demand that somebody else carry your water.

In America, the entitled position is that of employee. Easy to prove it.

 

Obviously.

I can only keep saying it, but you won't listen: government doesn't need your money; you are just blinded by the mythology of the current evil system that confines money creation to private sector private banks.

No soap box required; this pandemic will end up destroying the current evil private bankster-led monetary economy....
because governments will end up owing $trillions to the private banksters....
and when interest rates rise, forcing the government to raise taxes on already highly indebted citizens - INDEBTED TO PRIVATE BANKSTERS - to cover the government debt repayments....the population will revolt.

Stop repeating your obsolete quantity theory of money. An economy is the development and allocation of resources. Fullstop. Barter economies functioned quite well in their day.

Addressed above.

Question:

Are you capable of comprehension? It's resources, not money that should command everyone's attention.

I can only keep repeating: resources are not a swindle, money often is....

Addressed above, You really must see the differences between real resources and money, regardless of how resources are developed and allocated.

An irrelevancy: all are entitled to above-poverty reward as part of the process of the nation's resource development - drawing on nature's bounty - by enabling all to contribute according to their ability, rather than according to their success (or ability to compete) in private sector markets.

 

Don't need it??? They can't pay the bills they have already created. Try telling them they don't need your money and see what happens.

You need to see if the sci-fi fantasy of the borgs, the half-machine/half-human One brain technology is reality yet. Because that is the only way you are going to get all people to get on one page and give up their independence so your plan can take over.

You're obviously lost in outer space anyway; the Borgs be out there somewhere- you just need to find them and join up.

 

Didn't I make it clear? ....I have certainly said it many times...the sovereign currency-issuing government - with its own treasury and central bank - CAN certainly be authorized to create and spend its own currency in the economy, hence doesn't need your (private-bank created) money.

If you want to learn, here is Prof. Steve Keen's latest covid-inspired thinking on MMT:

(link)

Steve Keen - Can MMT solve the COVID-19 debt problem? | Brave New Europe

Not a particularly concise or clear presentation, I admit - Keen has come to MMT via a revolt against orthodox economics, so not surprisingly he is still hung up on money and not enough on real resources; nevertheless you will learn something.

 

Anybody who buys the same baloney you're on won't be able to learn a thing. Yes, you've said it. You can say pigs fly too, but that only tells us you've been reading too many fairy tales.

You apparently ignored the $10 Billion dollar bill I sent you an image of, and the fact you can buy one for $3 on ebay. That's your sovereign currency issued by it's government with it's own treasury and central bank, it's authorized (legal tender in Zimbabwe) and they can spend it. But- it won't buy a meal for one at a McDonalds. Still worth more than the idea that you keep trying to sell.