Breaking news: The 2nd Impeachment Trial of Donald J. Trump....

I view Trump as no less moral than the average politician. He's just less polite.

 

We fundamentally disagree on the purpose of impeachment. I never said one HAD to commit a crime to be impeached. And I actually agree with you; this was the biggest dereliction of duty in the history of the POTUS. But that's not what they are impeaching him for. Insurrection is a ridiculous charge imo. This was so clearly not an insurrection...by Trump. There has been no evidence of him capitalizing on the violence (that I've seen) in a way that would be pursuant to controlling the government. Just inaction, which doesn't comport with the leader of an insurrection.

You are right: the POTUS's underlings may very well arrest him if they saw him committing certain crimes. But our founders recognized that they may not. In that case we MUST have the impeachment tool.

In a nutshell, Democrats have taken POTUS impeachment to be used as a tool to punish him or her. My understanding is that's it's a tool to be used for removal (the continuing in office is the threat the tool is meant to alleviate). The branches are coequal, and the founders gave no branch the power to politically punish another branch.

 

What I know. If the senators from Indiana don't vote to convict Trump, I will not vote for them in the primaries, or at all going forward. Also what I think I know... If Trump wouldn't have started placing thoughts into his supporters head well before the election about voting fraud, and if he wouldn't have been running around after the election blathering voting fraud, and if he hadn't been riling up his supporters, the capitol riot wouldn't have happened. A lot of us new way before the election that Trump would not lose gracefully, you can look up threads and see those discussions from posters on here. If Trump would have acted in accordance with his position, there would have been no riot. So far as I am concerned, he is as responsible for the capitol riot as Jim Jones was responsible for the mass suicide in Jonestown. This impeachment is all we have to hold him accountable for his actions. He will never see a criminal court for this, but justice of some sort, even if it is never holding office again, needs to be served. A message needs to be sent here and now. We the people need justice. And sometimes that convicting someone of tax evasion instead of murder.

 

I think that is supposed to apply to the Legislative Body as well. Do you agree with that? We have had a war over what political ideology we will live under going forward. It isn't over and whatever rules are imposed should fit both sides.

 

As an outside observer - I haven't encountered a politician anywhere near
as bad as Trump. I like some of his policies, but as a man I see him as a
complete failure.

 

Only a Trump supporter can take responsibility for their own feelings. Trump is the full time harassment tool himself. Why would a Trump supporter be given a free pass to FACTS ?

 

Well, only through the people’s elected officials. Some presidents have tried to encourage voter suppression. That’s like “ impeaching “ the people imo.

 

Civil war? No...we have a minority of people on the political extremes that would like to overthrow the democratic republic. The vast majority favor reform instead of revolution. Trump was/is a demagogue who couldn't think beyond himself and manipulated his followers as long as they were useful to him.

 

It was those policies that elected him, not blind devotion.

Trump gave us reform and it was rejected for a return to Obama globalism.

 

Trump was a playground bully. He was constitutionally elected and then constitutionally rejected. He wanted Pence to break U.S. law and encouraged a mob to encourage Pence to do the same. When Pence refused, he tweeted a mob, which had stormed our Capitol, that Pence had failed them, inciting them further.

 

You say so.

 

That picture explains it all.

 

Feb. 11 updates for impeachment trial Day 3: House Democrats rest their case (nbcnews.com)
The videos of the Bus and attack in the Capitol Building would be more than enough to convict Trump, but maybe not/

 

That's a good question.

 

I didn't say any of this is unconstitutional but your take on what Trump did and tried to do is just wrong. The difference in his America and the Biden cabal America is clear. All that BS about inciting a riot is just that, BS. How can anyone watch the charade that is a Democrat impeachment hearing with it's wild drama and find anything legitimate about it? What a dark period in American history. It could well be the end of the original design.

 

So...you don't mind that Trump lied to the crowd?

 

There are still GOP senators still siding with Trump's defense team.

 

About what?

 

That the election had been found to be a fraud and that justified changing the "rules." That changing those rules allowed Pence to send the certified electoral counts back to the States.

 

No, that doesn't bother me.

 

The march on the Capitol was then based on a Presidential lie. You admit that?

 

Um, impeachment is not all you have as what you are accusing him of is a crime. I'm a little confused on why he can't just be tried for the crime? Why this charade and mockery of the Constitution?

 

Do you believe he committed a crime?

 

No, it was based on the feeling that our elections aren't legit. Was Trump politically capitalizing on that feeling? Yes. But imo, the feeling is going to be there with or without Trump because there is truth in it.

 

Not insurrection.