Ukraine crisis: Macron says a deal to avoid war is within reach

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by flyboy56, Feb 6, 2022.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump put Ukraine in a tough spot with his quid quo pro
     
  2. bidjo

    bidjo Banned

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    According to the Budapest memorandum, Ukraine should have a non-bloc status. Ukraine has changed the constitution, now it says joining NATO. So let them not cry that someone does not fulfill the agreements. There was no need to arrange a coup d'état, they would now live in peace. And leaving nuclear weapons to the powerless Nazis is like giving a grenade to a monkey.
     
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  3. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    Dude you're lost. You don't even know what the Minsk Agreements are, do you?
     
  4. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    And I'm sure attorneys at Law @Bill Carson do?

    I understand you helped draft it....:grin:
     
  5. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    How about you, what do you know about the Minsk agreement.
    Part of the requirement was the seize fire - violated daily by your side.
    Did DPR and LPR have elections that fit Ukrainian legal framework?
    Did Russia pull out all of its mercenaries?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_Protocol

    Do you expect Ukraine to follow the agreement that is not honored by the other side?
     
  6. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    And we should care about "DPR" and "LPR"... why? Sounds like an internal problem.
     
  7. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but Russians are using it as an excuse to smear Ukraine as the side that violated the agreement. That’s why they bring it up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  8. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    Russia will invade Ukraine if and when they want. They don't need to play political games. They can take Ukraine any time no matter what DPR, LPR or LMNOQ does.
     
  9. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I have had to revise my opinion about France, generally speaking, although to a Conservative American the self-destructive Socialism that contaminates nearly every country in the EU (and Britain, too) means that economies there will always be living with 'an incurable disease'.... In this respect, France is just as 'guilty', but, in truth, no worse than the others.

    But, drilling in on the current impasse with respect to 'NATO versus Russia' (that's really what it all boils down to), French President Macron may actually be the IDEAL person, in exactly the right position in the geopolitical 'mix' to achieve a de-escalation of the whole 'war dynamic'.

    Consider: France gets along quite well with Russia, and it always has! France does not have to bend to the Biden administration's will, and, because it has neither any post-World War II 'Nazi-guilt', or, any real autonomous American military bases on French soil, such as those you see to this day in Germany... and both of those factors explain why -- although it is the economic powerhouse of the entire EU -- Germany cannot really be the prime negotiator in this mess. Too much 'history'... and besides, Germany's new ruling socialist coalition has only been in office two months and, like all socialist coalitions, hasn't got 'peace' in its own ranks yet.

    Although many in Germany tend to 'look down their noses' at the French because of its endlessly corrupt political landscape, being pragmatic about it, the Germans and the French both work quite well with each other, and are closer now than at any point since the formation of the EU after the British decided to 'brexit'. So, Germany 'steps back' and plays it more-or-less quiet and almost 'neutral', while Macron steps up and deals directly with Putin, where he will certainly achieve better results than the Biden regime's amateur Secretary of State, Tony Blinken.
     
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  10. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    It’s not that simple, as there are many self-contradictory messages are being sounded in Russian media space. To them, they want to protect their own (ethnic Russians). Many also view Ukrainians as the “brother” nation/ethnicity. Basically, Putin must come up with an excuse that will be taken at a face value by his own people - that’s why they attempt to paint in broad brush that attempts to separate Ukrainians into good Ukrainians (from the east), and bad Ukrainians (from the west). Good Ukrainians and their fellow ethnic Russians are painted as the perpetual victims of bad Ukrainians from the west, the EU, the USA, NATO, Nazis, Jews - you name it, and they are all out there to exploit that foolish bad Ukrainian and to do all kinds to nasty stuff against the good Ukrainians and ethnic Russians. Putin can’t just go in without preparing his own people - then he’ll have to explain why he kills a bunch of “brother” nationals.
     
  11. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Their small nuclear-powered reactor convoys with drones, anti-air, and EMP cannons is a game changer that they were able to quickly produce and test after their experience with drone warfare in Syria and Kazakhstan. These are forward operating bases that will likely be used to take out weapons caches and the Abraham Tanks. They have been training with these weapons, and the Ukrainians will not have the ability to counter.

    I Imagine the Russians will try to surround the Eastern front by cutting off Dneiper River from the North and South .
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  12. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    I would disagree. We forget about the history of aggressors. Do you think TOJO needed media approval to attack China? Do you think Mussolini even CARED about the media when he attacked Ethiopia? Do you think Hitler waited until the people approved of his aggression before he invaded Poland? Do you think The North Koreans were influenced by public opinion before they invaded the South? Do you think Ho Chi Minh gave a rat's patookie about public opinion or the media before he attacked the south?
    History shows that all this complex maneuvering surrounding Putin's invasion of Ukraine means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He'll attack when and where he wants... PERIOD.
     
  13. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're right. It's not like they'll freeze in the field anymore. The Russian Army can sit in place for a long period of time with their small nuclear reactors, and take pot shots with their drones whenever they see an opportunity. US officials will likely travel to Israel to find a solution.
     
  14. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    EMP certainly would change the equation. EMP weapons will change the entire face of warfare. Ukraine is getting our JAVELIN anti-tank systems and, to be honest, I would not be surprised if they managed to get us to send them some of our CHAMP EMP systems. Israel has developed their own (which might even be better than ours) and might be available to the Ukrainians.
     
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  15. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah. Their Nuclear Powered Mobile Units have the capability of taking out those JAVELIN anti-tank missiles. It's really impressive. Objectively speaking, their collaboration with the Chinese has really paid off.

    I just wrote in my last post that the US will have to get help from Israel to find a solution to these Russian units, but Israel is pissed that the US keeps giving away military technology via Russian and Chinese cyber hacks. They also can't trust the Administration cause Kerry started 2021 by giving away Israeli military secrets to Iran. That guys is F-ing Snake with family financial interests in China and Iran.
    https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...r-resignation-and-investigation-kerry-denies/

    Clearly, Putin came to play, and the US doesn't have the support they need at the moment.
     
  16. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Im 100% in agreement with the highlighted part, but the intend and public opinion before the invasion is very important. Chinese claim Taiwan to be its own and the inhabitants of the island to be Chinese. Just last year Putin claimed all Ukrainians are Russians. If Russia and China invade and annex these corresponding territories, they wont be trying to massacre the locals for no reason - they’ll be trying to integrate annexed territories and their inhabitants (obviously, with brutal suppression of any resistance). Ukrainians and Russians have a lot of blood connections with each other and the war between these countries will touch a lot more people on both sides than the actual fighters. Going all in without preparing your own population in such setup can lead to unexpected consequences.
     
  17. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    They can take any time they want?

    Seems they've been stuck for 8 yrs in the East....hardly moving an inch?
     
  18. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Especially if it spills over to neighboring states,NATO states....which is HIGHLY possible....then US/Nato is drawn in....and Putinka has a massive problem on his hands.
     
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  19. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    An EMP impulse requires a lot of energy and the impulse must be directed at the target to be effective.
    Are there any known practical EMP weapons out there? Do they have the real ability to take out a short-range missile in flight without disabling the electronics of the missiles target (and all equipment around it)? If Russians use that weapon and disable their own tanks and communication - I’m sure such strategy would be welcomed by the locals themselves. :lol:
     
  20. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Can you please provide an article to a real EMP weapon that you described above?
    Any nuclear weapon that is burst over a horizon will produce an EMP, but it will travel in all directions and is impractical as a shield against an incoming short-range missile, as this EMP will render all electronics in the equipment you are trying to protect useless.
    I’ve read that there are experimental EMP weapons that can work toward one specific direction, but those are working using microwave radiation. If you want to use a weapon like that against a Javelin missile then you need to find a way to power up the device in a matter of seconds and accurately fire from that weapon toward the missile in flight, while still preserving the functional capabilities of this missiles target. Oh, and that weapon would need to have some very serious source of electrical power and mobile power stations would produce a ton of heat - something that’s easy to detect and shoot at with Javelins themselves. And another thing - javelins don’t fly very high, so that weapon that shoots EMP would need to be within the horizon, so, considering the power requirement, I have doubts about Russians possessing such weapons.
    I’m not denying the existence of these weapons, I just want to read about their properties to see how practical they can be in real settings of a conventional war.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  21. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And will France and Germany be there with us? That is Russia's backyard giving them the advantage. At this point we have no idea who really has out backs. Ukraine as strong economic ties to Russia so can we really trust Ukraine? We might very well be walking into a trap.
     
  22. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Ukraine does not have strong economic ties with Russia. Their biggest trading partner is EU.
     
  23. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How can 90% of a population be hostile to the person they voted for in a legal election? I watched the protests on FOX news as they were showing on a map where the protesters were coming from - and they were all coming from the Western areas. The announcer kept waiting for protesters to join them from other parts of Ukraine, and none of them did - so let's stop the bullsh*t.

    Some of the protesters interviewed were Polish, also one has to wonder who was paying them - after all they came from the poorest parts of Ukraine - so I doubt they were trust fund babies like our Occupy Wall Streeters. There were probably quite a few diplomat planes landing before the protests packed with dollar bills from our money-making machines.

    Of course you can't reinstate Yanukovich when his supporters in Parliament were under threat to leave at the point of a gun - as he was as well. The only reason Yanukovich was not killed was thanks to Vladimir Putin who stayed up all night helping him and his family to escape to Crimea where he could be picked up by a Russian helicopter.

    Later In the farce of an election in Ukraine, anyone who represented the people in the South and East of Ukraine were thrown into trash bins and under threat not to run.

    The following is from a 2014 interview with George Friedman founder and director of Stratfor, which is a U.S. intelligence strategic advisory institute. Read it, you might learn something:

    "...Against this background, I do not think the Ukrainian situation (where one part of the country feels pulled toward convergence with the EU, while the other is inclined toward Russia) is something altogether unique..."

    “..Russia calls the events that took place at the beginning of this year a coup d’etat organized by the United States. And it truly was the most blatant coup in history.

    https://newcoldwar.org/stratfor-chiefs-most-blatant-coup-in-history-interview-from-dec-2014/


     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
  24. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The first part of the agreement was that the President of Ukraine was to speak to the Presidents of the Republics, and both Poroshenko and Zalensky have refused to - so I don't know why the lies. It certainly doesn't establish your credibility. Another part was that Kiev was to pay their pensions, and they have not. Russia has been paying them and in rubles.

    The reason Zalensky doesn't want the agreement is because they refuse to give the Donbas the rights granted to them in the agreement. If Kiev followed the agreement and decentralized and federalized Ukraine the way the US, Germany and Russia is - and as was specified in the Minsk II agreement, Kiev would lose its total control of Ukraine and the wealth of the Donbas.. Fascism? Of course!

    As for who is firing at who, well I guess the Russians are killing their fellow Russians again in the areas occupied by Kiev to make the Ukrainians look bad.

    You people better think up a new one, because that one is getting quite old.
     
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  25. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    That’s not what I said.
    I said their current parliament would be very hostile to Yanukovich and would immediately kick him out because pro-Russian forces in the parliament hold only a 10% minority.

    As for the geographic distribution of Russia sympathizers in Ukraine:
    3E836DC3-8966-4571-97F4-AB8A751F4C0C.png

    Yuriy Boyko was a pro-Russian candidate in 2019. The areas that supported him are shaded in light blue.
    Widespread pro-Russian mood in Ukraine is a myth. This map alone renders 75% of your claims about politics in Ukraine to be not based in reality. The absolute majority of Ukrainians strongly oppose anything related to Russia and don’t want their country to have anything to do with it. Pro-Russian moods are a tiny minority there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
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