How Long Can Ukraine Resist Before They're The Bad Guys?

Russia has everyone triggered I see. Maybe you guys are right. I think we need to wait and see. But hey I guess anything is possible.

 

I have not, personally, seen them but, yes, this is an opportunity to put one's money, where one's mouth is, for any that had been advocating this sort of personal involvement (who was pushing this idea?). Unless, of course, they have dry-cleaning to pick up... and no one to water their plants, while they would be away.

 

Hmmm. I wonder how this will all play out.

 

I proffered a similar solution before the invasion, and no one was interested. People want war.

 

How are you suggesting Biden should have responded?

 

I hear, surprisingly, to me, that these Molotovs are effective weapons, against Russian TANKS!

 

Putin wants to keep Ukraine, under his heel.

Ukraine had the audacity to strive to have a democratic government, to reduce its corruption, and adopt a model of Western Capitalism, for their own system, to achieve success, in a free nation.

Bad example-- in Putin's opinion.

 

A world that adheres to international laws, if not also norms, in which all countries respect each other's national boundaries, is clearly a safer, more orderly world, for us all. This model, might be fairly called, the central focus of U.S. foreign policy (impinging greatly, as well, on domestic policy), since the end of the Second World War.

 

Putin can always make excuses. It is not as if he replies upon proof, for any outlandish claim like, I don't know, that the Ukranian government is Nazi- run; or that they are currently engaged in a genocide, which cannot be seen, by the rest of us, directed at their ethnic Russian population.

Dry off your ears.

 

You have seen too many James Bond movies. No foreign government is going to sponsor a mission to kidnap Putin, & put him on trial, at the Hague. It would be a fortunate thing, if forces within Russia, were to use their familiar ways, to stop the madness, but this is not all that likely to occur...
Now where did I leave that Novichok?


But hey, anything to criticize Biden. If old Joe dressed in black, smudged his face, parachuted in, and brought Putin out, on his own-- just like Monday- morning Republicans are now saying, about the sanctions on Russia, which Biden spearheaded-- you would only respond, "Took him long enough."


And then we'd see a thread, linked to a Right Wing "news" site, showing a picture of Joe's face, smeared with its camouflaging, black paint, and calling him a Racist, for dressing in blackface!

And the posters here, perhaps including yourself, would "call out the hypocrisy," of those who defend President Biden of their charges, but who support the rights of those who "cancel," other racists.

 

Well made, and civilly addressed arguments, all.

 

There is the propaganda and there are the actual motivations. There is ridiculous propaganda coming out of most regimes (including those in the west; Remember "they hate us for our freedoms"?), but there are also more rational indications of motivations.

If you think Putin is an idiot cartoon villain or Hitler reborn, then ok.... but I think he is an intelligent self-interested corrupt politician pushing for his own profit and self preservation.

 

Your mistake is in a single word, of your sentence: "is."

Putin certainly has been the person, you describe-- by the way, this still would provide no reason to take Putin's word, that he would leave Ukraine alone, in the future-- but he no longer seems to be acting like that person, whom he was.

If Putin's top priorities were, "his own profit and self preservation," there would be no justification for continuing this failure of an operation. Things have not panned out, as expected, obviously. By continuing, in fact, he is working against his own profit, and self- preservation. Those are clearly no longer, his primary, driving motivations or, he is no longer calculating the risk vs. benefit, of his actions, in a rational way.

Though I think these things should be patently apparent, I do not expect you to just take my word, if you see things differently. But, assuming you don't think of yourself as an expert on Putin, I will quote you a little from an interview of someone who actually IS: Fiona Hill.

As to the reason for Putin's change in behavior, one can only speculate, but that Russia's leader is not acting and speaking as he has, throughout his career, is something that a chorus of voices-- and I'm talking about national security experts, fmr. U.S. Ambassadors to Russia, and others for whom watching Putin, listening to every speech, has been central to their livelihoods, for a decade or longer-- all saying that something is very different. Some have noted that his circle grew much smaller, during Covid, so that Putin's perspective, according to one person that I've quoted, went from 360°, to 60°. Ambassador Michael McFaul, I've heard, describe Putin's current circle as steeped in the old Soviet KGB mentality, not grounded in the real world, but in living in a paranoid fantasy. So, perhaps, we are seeing something akin to the transformation that many underwent, during their Covid isolations, exposed to Qanon conspiracies, and living in that echo- chamber.

Then again, Putin is getting up their, in age. Perhaps these are early signs of age-related dementia, or Alzheimer's. I have even heard offered the possibility that he had contracted Covid, at some point-- the virus had run rampant, in Russia; while Putin seemed to have Trump's nonchalance about it, at first-- and he was now experiencing the after- effect, it causes some, of "brain fog."

We may never know the explanation; what is important is that he is no longer himself-- that's the fatal flaw, in your logic. Even observing the behavior of others around Putin, as in a broadcast meeting of him with his Supreme Council, the body language was unmistakable: no one willing to even look Putin in the eye, all acting intimidated, but unwilling to say anything that might upset Putin. Here is another small clip, from the article:

[SNIP]
There’s lots of danger ahead, she warned. Putin is increasingly operating emotionally and likely to use all the weapons at his disposal, including nuclear ones. It’s important not to have any illusions — but equally important not to lose hope.
“Every time you think, ’No, he wouldn’t, would he?’ Well, yes, he would,” Hill said. “And he wants us to know that, of course. It’s not that we should be intimidated and scared…. We have to prepare for those contingencies and figure out what is it that we’re going to do to head them off.”


https://news.yahoo.com/world-war-iii-already-184545712.html

 

I'd compare it to when the USSR put missiles in Cuba. How did the US react? Putin is reacting under similar motivation here I think. He has seen the line pushed further and further towards Russia and he can't tolerate Russia's direct neighbor joining NATO. The good move here would have been to say Ukraine won't join NATO and will be left on its own, if Russia backs off and does the same.

Another good comparison would be if Korea united under South Korea and suddenly US troops or US swayed regime was sitting on China's doorstep. This is one of the main reasons China supports North Korea, who is otherwise a headache for China.

I think he thinks that if he loses Ukraine to western influence, his self-preservation is put in grave danger, so he is acting accordingly.

Putin has always been an autocrat. He has had people killed who opposed him and he has consolidated an iron grip on his power. The only thing he would need to motivate him to "change" this way is to be convinced that Ukraine actually was being considered for joining NATO. He has numerous times told the west to back off and has stated Ukraine is a red line. The west laughed him off. This is him trying to show he wasn't bluffing.

All the more reason to tell him Ukraine is NOT going to join NATO and the US does not intend to control Russia's neighbours. All the more reason to ask Russia to agree to a mutual backing away from Ukraine and allowing Ukraine to be a neutral state, like Mongolia is between Russia and China.

BTW, I want to say thanks for minimizing your bolding colouring font size obsession. I could read your post that time. Any more of the formatting, and I won't find it tolerable.