Russia: New Cold War is Over, We Are Now in ‘Hot Conflict With the United States’

We got along with Russia. Did you sleep thru the entire Cold War?

 

NATO.

 

MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) precluded nuclear war for decades. While MAD is still with us, when you throw in Iranian religious zealots that really don't care about MAD... a nutjob like Putin... the world situation changes.

 

So here's my thing, well a couple of things. People point to Article 5 as being crucial, and we all know why and the elephant in the room: US involvement. I don't like that(as several of my posts on this topic has indicated.) I fear, and history has shown that we will have to go in again, and again, AND again. It might not even be the Russians the next time, it'll be some other Euro-centric border spat.

But specifically as it pertains to the Russians, let's say Putin is deposed and a moderate comes to power. This moderate still has to deal with the queasy reality of missile defense systems and god knows what else on the border of Finland, 250 KM away from St. Petersburg. The sad and unfortunate reality is, is that even a moderate, democratic Russia would be like 'WTF?'

And yes, the NATO organization can scream up and down that it's a defensive organization but the words don't really amount to anything because it can always change(no matter how likely or unlikely) at a given point.

Both sides have to give each other much stronger guarantees.

 

Interesting discussion. But its all speculation. No one knows what will or will not happen. That's why we elect the best and the brightest to choose the best course of action as the unforeseen occurs. We always try to put the smartes and quickets folks in the White House... uhmmm... wait....

 

Russia: New Cold War is Over, We Are Now in ‘Hot Conflict With the United States’

What new cold war? Russia is in a hot conflict UKkraine. If they can't tell the difference I hate they don't have find out that they may be right.

 

Lying to others is not 'getting along'. Like it did to the Native Americans back in the 1800s, the federal government consistently lied to Russia by way of Bush I, Mr. Baker his SecState and many others. Indeed, the entire NATO community lied to Russia and backed up the lies with overt acts, encroachment by way of Ukraine and most recently Finland.

In addition to being the largest purveyor of violence on the planet, the US government is a pathological liar. You are kidding only yourself claiming "we got along with Russia".

 

aha another America bashing American!

 

Speaking only for myself, this American understands, just as Mark Twain did a long time ago, that his country is one thing and its government is very much another thing.

Likely that is too sophisticated a reasoning for you to grasp. Don't worry, you've been conditioned to think the way you do.

 

I never understand this dislike/ distrust conservatives have for government. The famous quote “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”. Reagan made that quote while he was the head of the government. If he hated government so much, he should have left the government. Oh I know , conservative wants to lead the government so they can destroy the government. Have you ever wonder why government is bad, conservative deliberately wants to destroy the government, that’s why.

Country and government are the same thing. We the people elect the government which reflects who we are. American government is not installed by a foreign nation, or a Monarchy handed down generation after generation. American government is elected by the people every 2 or 4 years and sometimes even in special election by the people. No elite group in the smoked filed backroom selecting any one. American voter electing their leader.

 

Biden's Vietnam and Democrats are fully behind it (just like Kennedy and Johnson). No wonder so many foreign powers have rejected him.

 

Country and government are NOT the same thing. The country was born sometime in the 1600s, and the people of the country did not create the government until 1787.

 

It could, but the primary calculus of every dictatorial kleptocrat is survival. A full-on nuclear exchange would literally blow that and all the wonderful benefits of being a dictator to high heaven.

What concerns me is the thought that Vlad the Invader might entertain the idea of using tactical nukes, but that too would risk bringing NATO into the conflict, and Putin doesn't want that. His half-assed excuse for a military has got all it can handle right now.

There's one last thing to consider here. Putin doesn't necessarily need to use nukes to get the cowardly "leaders" in Washington and the West to do what he wants them to do. He just needs to make them think he will, and so far his nuclear saber handling has had the intended effect. He rattles, they crap themselves.

 

Well, permit me to help you to understand, and let's begin at the beginning, shall we?

Our Constitution and limited form of consensual government is based on a distrust of the necessary evil that is government, but more importantly it is based on a dislike and distrust of power-hungry men (and women) in government who will violate our rights and social contract for their own personal, ideological and political gain.

Libertarians and limited government conservatives merely share those dislikes and distrusts.

The more important question in my mind, is why don't Leftists? Are these dislikes and distrusts an impediment to Leftists becoming what libertarians and conservatives don't like - power-hungry men and women who will violate our rights and social contract for their own personal, ideological and political gain? Is it an impediment to the Left's desire to achieve those ends using the coercive force of a government wielding unlimited power?

If so, that reflects poorly on Leftists, not libertarians and limited government conservatives.

Government is what people make of it, and the notion that an over-powerful, over-intrusive, over-bloated and over-expensive government is going to check and reduce its power, size and expense on its own is fantastical. That's never going to happen outside of government - it has to happen inside it. "Progressives" learned this as well during the 1960s and 70s - to "change the system" you have to work inside "the system".

Country and government are the not same thing. Government is merely one aspect of a country, and it would be loathsome indeed if we were defined by that cesspool of corruption in Washington. America and Americans are much more than that, thank goodness.

 

No doubt there are power hungry or greedy people who go to politics and want to control others for their benefit. But the beauty of American democracy is that we have mechanism to remove them from government. Our political system has the ability to impeach, ability to vote politicians out of office every 2, 4 or even in special election. In American history no politics or government leader was able to stay in power by force like other dictator around the world.

I trust government more then my next door libertarian neighbor who run around with gun thinking he is second coming of George Washington who will free America from Joe Biden’s tyranny. I voted for Joe Biden, I like what Joe is doing, I don’t want my idiot libertarian neighbor use his gun to free America from anything. If Joe Biden became tyrant we will vote him out in next election.

I trust government much more then bunch of idiot mobs who think they are the savior of this country.

 

And there are countless power hungry and greedy people outside of Washington who want an all-powerful government to coerce and control others for their own personal benefit. The corrupt politicians in DC didn't get elected and re-elected by themselves - they were elected and re-elected by a segment of the electorate that is equally corrupt. That's why the Founders and Framers spoke repeatedly about the necessity of public virtue:

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.
--Benjamin Franklin

“A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.”
―Samuel Adams

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
--Benjamin Franklin

Our Constitution, social contract and limited form of government were designed to thwart the power lust and greed of both.

The problem with American democracy is that a corrupt electorate does not remove corrupt elected officials from government. Then there is the enormous problem of a vast federal bureaucracy that has become a law unto itself, and we're just beginning to come to grips with this unelected, extraconstitutional power today. Legislators, presidents and judges routinely flout the Constitution, and perhaps worst of all, as Antonin Scalia noted before his death, the language in our laws doesn't matter anymore. The rule of written law is dead.

This is why it is foolish to trust government. There is no greater threat to our individual freedom and prosperity than government and it has been that way since time immemorial. The long arc of human history has been the individual's struggle against government slavery, tyranny and robbery.

Your neighbor, real or fictitious, doesn't sound like a libertarian to me, nor does he resemble any libertarian or what libertarians believe in at all. You should take the time to familiarize yourself with who and what they really are. Libertarians believe in the Constitution and rule of law that so many people on the Left and Right don't care about. The last time libertarians ran around with guns in order to free our country was during the American Revolution.

As for myself, I don't trust government at all, and neither did the Founders. Our government was instituted to secure our rights, not to trample them underfoot, thus the power of government and government officials must be limited as much as possible. Government has a useful role in our country and that role is articulated in the DOI and COTUS, but it has far exceeded those limitations at the expense of our freedom and prosperity.

Another thing I don't trust are the "progressives" in this country who only care about power and control, and desire an all-powerful central government that enables them to impose their will on others. They hate our Constitution and Bill of Rights because it was written with people like them in mind and designed to thwart their will to power.

I trust neither. Since the French Revolution the fanatics who have subscribed to the utopian fantasies of saving Man and the World have been the most destructive people on the planet. They are a plague on humanity. They brought us the first genocide of the Modern Era in the Vendée, murdered and enslaved hundreds of millions of hapless human beings during the 20th Century, and now they seek to impose their utopian fantasies and totalitarian impulses on the last crumbling bastion of individual freedom on the planet. They are not to be trusted and they are not to be left to their own devices.

 

Nuclear weapons come in many sizes and effects. If there is a ground burst, you get lots of fallout. If you detonate at an altitude where the fireball does not touch the ground you get almost no fallout at all. The nukes I encountered in the Army came as small as 1.25 kt (Hiroshima was 15 kt). I never was involved with the use of a "backpack nuke" but the ones we planned on having the Special Ops guys detonate on the East-West German border in the 1980's were less than one kiloton.

I am still somewhat surprised that Putin hasn't detonated a nuke in the skies over Ukraine. If done at the proper altitude in the proper place, it could have no effect on NATO territory yet be an effective way to intimidate the Ukrainians. He could do that without any retaliation.

 

Your inability to understand why the govt is and has always been trash, is on you. If you can’t understand how a powerful govt is open to corruption of the worst kind, again that’s on you.

The government is not your friend. And that president was correct, and knew that in order to keep the govt in check he needed to be part of it.

 

I don’t always see eye to eye with you but I admire your patience. Well articulated.