Universal Basic Income again

Why do I have to ensure that for everyone? What if they don't want a job with enough hours and pay to live on when they can get it without working for it? How about UNLESS you work and provide for yourself you will not have enough to live on so get your arse out there and get a job and be a dependable productive employee and then you will have enough to live on.

Then plan to stay out of poverty for the able bodied is quite simple

Take full advantage of the free education offered to everyone
Do not engage in crime
Do no abuse drugs and alcohol
Do not have children our of marriage
Do not get married until you are in your late 20's and have a stable job and income
Be a loyal and dependable and productive employee and work to seek promotion and raises by ensuring the success of the company you are working for.

Nothing to it.

 

"Its called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. ......"

Why should the able bodied be able to depend on others to ensure them they have enough to live on?

 

I suppose you don't. You could just let people die off, and reduce the population so that there are just enough to fill the jobs and work hours that pay enough to live on. Not the compassionate thing to do, and it would probably mean a pretty extreme short term spike in crime, but I suppose it is an option.

Again, that presumes the work exists for everyone to earn a living wage. You can't rationally claim people are just too lazy if the work does not exist for them to do that pays enough to live on. Currently that still may be true, but we are facing a future where that is not certain.

 

Unless of course it becomes out of date due to there being not enough work to be done anymore.

 

Chicago tried universal basic income. It was going to stimulate the economy and rebuild Chicago. A year later, the city’s economy still
Sucks, residents are still leaving, and crime has increased.

 

I have presumed that motivated, able folks will survive and bums won't. There is nothing new here. Ever hear of the Great Depression?

 

What specific facts do you dispute. This is verifiable in a million ways. If you can be specific about what you dispute, I will be glad to provcide verification and proof.

 

And why do you presume that? It never was a sure thing, and it is even more questionable as AI and automation develop further.

 

I presume it because that is all I have ever experienced. Motivated folks get educated and/or learn a trade. They make money and are happy. Its really not all that hard. And being successful through your own efforts is a good way to stay happy too.
The dawning of AI will, indeed, present new challeges though.

 

If there isn't enough work to go around, then regardless of how motivated and willing to work that you may be, there is a chance you won't be able to make due.

 

There's always enough work. If you, yourself can't find any, look harder. If you are young enough, join the military. I was a program manager and got laid off. I taught school. I've relocated coast-to-coast for employment. Again, its all a matter of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

 

That is a faith based belief, and there is no guarantee it will be so in the future.

 

We got through the Great Depression. We'll get through this. And your "doom and gloom" prediction is faith based. There is no guarantee that the future will be like that.

 

I did not say it would be. I said it could be. You have made the stronger claim here. Even today, there is no guarantee people will get by without help simply by being willing to work hard.

 

No one knows the future... good, bad, or indifferent. We could all have better jobs in the future ,,, well,, not me. I', retired and having a BLAST!

 

We have a GLUT jobs waiting to be filled.

 

I'm sorry but when did the personal responsibilty for everyone else fall in my lap. Why does the population have to be reduced we had a GLUT of jobs and able bodied people out there refusing to go back to work.

It's not a presumption and in my early years my jobs did not pay a "living wage" the was enough to support a family of four by that definition. EVERY job has NEVER met that bogus criteria. If you want such a job

Take full advantage of the free education offered to everyone
Do not engage in crime
Do no abuse drugs and alcohol
Do not have children our of marriage
Do not get married until you are in your late 20's and have a stable job and income
Be a loyal and dependable and productive employee and work to seek promotion and raises by ensuring the success of the company you are working for.

Nothing to it you'll get there rather quickly.

 

So, personal responsibility by the individual doesn't exist anymore?

 

Money represents units of value. People trade units of value, not money. The money is just a measuring tool. Giving everyone money does not give everyone value. That would be like giving everyone a ruler to make people taller.

Under UBI, the people that actually sell value would still be the people that receive all the money. The price for that value would scale to the money supply. UBI therefore can't be scaled to any "basic" amount of value, as the basic price would always scale to the UBI dollar amount + the dollar amount of the actual base value. In effect it's a plan to simply raise the minimum & maximum amount of currency anyone is willing to pay for value.

 

I am baffled how you got that from what I wrote. I said no such thing.

 

Yes it is.

The future will not be your early years. It is uncertain. AI and automation may do away with enough jobs so that all people can't do what you did, even all people ready and willing to work very hard.

That's all good advice. It certainly increases your chances but doesn't guarantee you will get work enough to get by on, especially if the job market shrinks dramatically.

If stable income becomes less and less obtainable, then this would shrink your population numbers. I suppose that could be offset with increased immigration in the short term.

This presumes you got the job in the first place. It also presumes the job isn't then automated. Dependability and productivity is definitely good advice, but it doesn't guarantee anything. At your best you may not be half as productive as the machine or AI that replaces you.

 

I find it hard to believe that the future will be so awful, so "doom and gloom". so filled with despair and hopelessness as you see it. AI may enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of human endeavors allowing us to reach into the far ends of the cosmos and send liberals there, find cures for things like cancer and wokism, help improve the human condition by increasing food production and eliminating Democrats.

 

That gave me a chuckle.

 

You said....

Why is it anyone other than the individual in question's responsibility? Aged and disabled exempted, of course.

 

The farm tractor played the same role as automation. Revolutions in technology create revolutions in employment. Labor is a resource. Society is not in the habit of leaving valuable resources laying on the ground.

Automation can replace low skill low pay labor. The use of automation requires high skill highly paid labor. This alone actually creates new jobs. Other displaced labor will find new ways to produce value, just like the former pickers and growers did with the advent of the tractor.

The ability to use automation is not exclusive either. The more the technology to automate evolves the more it becomes accessible to everyone. Just think of how much more productive you are with the technology you currently use in your activities of daily living. Imagine yourself using that automation to create the things that you think the world needs.

Right this moment you could build an automated factory in your garage, apartment, back yard, for a few thousand dollars investment and sell your product to the entire world on the Internet. It won't be hard to work. It will be hard to come up with the idea of what kind of work you want. But then, there's people that are good at that, and they're going to need labor to help them.