Lets make a deal- I'll accept that you actually believe Trump is out to get you

yabberefugee · Nov 24, 2023

Trump is not Hitler....that is ridiculous. He is the Samuel Adams of our day, if only because John Adams couldn't get elected.

yabberefugee · Nov 24, 2023

Derideo_Te said: ↑

Whichever side upholds the Constitution and the Rights of ALL Americans to EQUALITY will ultimately prevail because surrendering to extremist OPPRESSION is NOT an acceptable outcome for the vast MAJORITY of We the People.
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What you keep referring to "we the people" does not include weaponized agencies that prefer one political party over another. I';m talking IRS,FBI and DOJ. They are rogue extensions of a perverted Republic.
As we were warned, It is a Republic only for a moral and just citizenry, keep it if you can.

Derideo_Te · Nov 24, 2023

Tijuana said: ↑

Some really interesting points in here. Thanks for the detailed response.

Right off the bat, I have to refute your notion that the military members would not be part of the civil war, and that they would all fight for team status quo. That isn't what happened last time, at all. Robert E Lee was our best general, before he fought against us, as one famous example. Last time we fought brother vs brother, and I see no reason why it wouldn't be similar the second time. Look, if what you think would happen does, there isn't a war. The public can't beat the army in a fight. My point is that they wouldn't have to. I think at best Democrats could maybe retain half-ish...if that. But the voting demographics are clear, if the soldiers go the way they vote.

Your point about people owning more guns than they have hands IS a good point. But I think the issue is more of who DOESN'T have any, and who doesn't know how to use them very well, if at all. I wouldn't bet on team blue in a shooting competition, and that's sort of what wars are. I'm also not sure why you are drawing a line between civilian and military marksmanship; many members of the public, were themselves in the military, and hunting deer might not be as scary as a war, but you still have to hit the target.

I'm not sure either side largely WANTS a civil war. But I fear we are on a path that could lead there eventually. All we need is a little dehumanization, and we are on our way.

I'm unaware of any civil war in history, that ended over bad press. Vietnam might have. The press even convinced us we lost that war, but the Viet Cong disagreed. They were shocked we retreated after their heavy casualties they took in the Tet Offensive. But at the root of those protests was not death and destruction, it was the draft and why are we doing it. Those concerns will not exist in a civil war. We will know why we are doing it, unlike Vietnam.

It seems you think anyone participating in a civil war, is somehow no longer "We the People"? Why? You might think that of them, but they and their supporters would not think that of themselves. Also, I'm not sure why you think only extremists from the right, would start a civil war. It was mainstream duly elected politicians who started the last one, not some rogue group.

Why do we need more police than we have now, in your scenario, and why do think they are all fighting for team status quo? This is another demographic with huge numbers of Republicans, and they have both firearms, and firearms training. And why do you think if the civil war is lost by the US, that doom and gloom oppressive laws are to follow? Those aren't the teams. The American right is NOT going to engage in MORE control of the public, that is the opposite of their views.

I don't own a gun, and I'm not an NRA member. But I don't think they are the boogeyman, either. I think they push the things their members want them to push, like any other group. The NRA isn't changing any minds, that's for sure. If you hate guns, of course you hate them. That's fair as can be. But the idea that is often presented without challenge, that the NRA has to buy Republicans, is completely illogical. Those Republicans were members when they were 12, and signed up for gun training.

I would say this to your oppression fears. The Republicans, if they won, would likely adopt the same constitution, because they don't have any issues with it in the first place. It would be the authoritarian left, who is more likely to take away freedoms. We know of several rights already, for a fact, that they would abolish. I'm not saying one side is good and the other is evil, but lets at least get the teams straight. People don't fight a war just to do the opposite of their beliefs.

Interesting chat. I like some of your points, but I just can't get around the unlikely premise that the military stays in tact, which kind of impacts many of the points made. But we can agree that if they did, the point is moot. There is no war, if that were the case.
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I hate to break the news to you but the Xtofascist controlled GOP have been ITCHING for a civil war for a long time now. This is reflected in the polling.

https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/997-the-zogby-poll-will-the-us-have-another-civil-war

Region was another area where there was a difference in opinion on the likelihood of another civil war. Voters in the East region (39% likely and 44% unlikely) were much less likely to think we would have another civil war compared with respondents in the Central/Great Lakes region (48% likely and 43% unlikely) and South region (49% likely and 39% unlikely).
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https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3647063-can-civil-war-happen-again/

Can Civil War happen again?

The first stage of today’s national divide began when automation and global trade caused underemployment and lagging income among predominantly white Rust Belt and rural Americans. So-called “elites,” mostly college-educated, were suspected of wanting to “replace” neglected whites with minorities. The 2016 election of celebrity Donald Trump began the second stage, during which polarization worsened but remained peaceful. Trump’s followers believed their interests were protected by the president and the conservative Supreme Court and saw no reason to rebel.

The election of Biden and Trump’s refusal to admit defeat brought the United States to the brink of stage three in 2021. Thanks to some responsible Republicans, transition of power took place. Still, the greatest and least remediable danger remains the conviction of Trump’s cult-like base that he won the election, making the current government illegitimate in their eyes.

The potential for large-scale violence exists today as it did in 1861. Americans possess nearly 400 million firearms, concentrated in the South, Midwest and West. A large fraction of Trump voters agree that “true patriots may have to resort to violence to save the USA.” Nearly 100 anti-establishment militias have been identified, the most virulent of which, Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, are standing by for a fight.

What is to be done?

Simply stated, Republican leaders must squarely condemn all threats of political violence and distance themselves from colleagues who encourage or condone it — even at the cost of votes and elections.

Where are these leaders? Where is today’s Henry Clay?

This is the moment to step forward.

The first Civil War may have been unavoidable: A second one is not.
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Plenty of other articles in the CURRENT media documenting both the CONCERNS and those who are ADVOCATING for civil war.

The THREAT of another civil war is REAL, as to who, what, when, where remains TBD.

WRT to your point about the military, I did NOT say that they would stay out of it, just that if it CHOSE to UPHOLD their OATH to the Constitution they would side AGAINST those who are currently AGITATING for another civil war. Certainly there will be DEFECTERS under that scenario but the SIZE of the current military is too SMALL to IMPOSE martial law nationwide.

Seizing power by FORCE is the EASY part, RULING by FORCE is a great deal more difficult and requires large amounts of manpower using BRUTAL oppression methods.

I stand by who PREVAILS because the ARC of HISTORY always bends TOWARDS liberalism. The outcome of the civil war was NOT what the INSURRECTIONISTS wanted, they were DEFEATED by those who UPHELD the concept of LIBERTY for ALL citizens irrespective of race.

Those on the SIDE of INDIVIDUAL rights for ALL will ultimately PREVAIL over those who support the unamerican Xtofascist Agenda.

Tijuana · Nov 24, 2023

Derideo_Te said: ↑

I hate to break the news to you but the Xtofascist controlled GOP have been ITCHING for a civil war for a long time now. This is reflected in the polling.

https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/997-the-zogby-poll-will-the-us-have-another-civil-war

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3647063-can-civil-war-happen-again/

Plenty of other articles in the CURRENT media documenting both the CONCERNS and those who are ADVOCATING for civil war.

The THREAT of another civil war is REAL, as to who, what, when, where remains TBD.

WRT to your point about the military, I did NOT say that they would stay out of it, just that if it CHOSE to UPHOLD their OATH to the Constitution they would side AGAINST those who are currently AGITATING for another civil war. Certainly there will be DEFECTERS under that scenario but the SIZE of the current military is too SMALL to IMPOSE martial law nationwide.

Seizing power by FORCE is the EASY part, RULING by FORCE is a great deal more difficult and requires large amounts of manpower using BRUTAL oppression methods.

I stand by who PREVAILS because the ARC of HISTORY always bends TOWARDS liberalism. The outcome of the civil war was NOT what the INSURRECTIONISTS wanted, they were DEFEATED by those who UPHELD the concept of LIBERTY for ALL citizens irrespective of race.

Those on the SIDE of INDIVIDUAL rights for ALL will ultimately PREVAIL over those who support the unamerican Xtofascist Agenda.
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I don't see how you have arrived at some of these views, my friend. Republicans literally stroke it to the Constitution, so saying they are against it, just makes you look a bit unhinged. That doesn't make any sense.

And again, the left has made it quite clear, it is THEY who would wholesale amend the constitution, given a chance. These are facts.

Seriously what does this silly term mean, that doesn't show up in Google search? Xtofascist is a word you use in every single post, and I'm not sure anyone but you knows what it means, and you have refused to explain. I'm not sure we are going to have a great chat, so I'm going to move along.

Derideo_Te · Nov 25, 2023

Tijuana said: ↑

I don't see how you have arrived at some of these views, my friend. Republicans literally stroke it to the Constitution, so saying they are against it, just makes you look a bit unhinged. That doesn't make any sense.
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Puerile ad hom TOS violation duly noted.

Tijuana said: ↑

And again, the left has made it quite clear, it is THEY who would wholesale amend the constitution, given a chance. These are facts.
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You have that ASSBACKWARDS.

That is a FACT!

Tijuana said: ↑

Seriously what does this silly term mean, that doesn't show up in Google search? Xtofascist is a word you use in every single post, and I'm not sure anyone but you knows what it means, and you have refused to explain.
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Xmas = Christmas!

Xtian = Christian!

Xtofascism = Christian Fascism!

The use of "X" is a common ABBREVIATION of the term "Christ" and it dates back many centuries.

Sad that it NEEDS to be explained.

Perhaps if you share your SOURCES and your ACADEMIC credentials that might shed some light as to why you appear have everything assbackwards. It is entirely possible that you have been MISLED by others into believing the opposite of documented reality regarding who does and does not support the Constitution.

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Lets make a deal- I'll accept that you actually believe Trump is out to get you

yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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Lets make a deal- I'll accept that you actually believe Trump is out to get you

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