Do you trust your church?

First you state that Putin made a rule that he imposed on Ukraine (they aren’t allowed to join NATO) but then say that you are not aware that he wants to run Western Ukraine. Well, the first statement indicates that that he does want to run Ukraine.

Then the way you slide in that Ukraine started bombarding in Feb 2022. Nice effort to make Ukraine the aggressor in Putin’s war of territorial expansion.

“…before the US changed the Ukrainian government…’

 

What I said is correct and coherent.

To understand the first bit, no country has a right to join NATO, and that is why Ukraine did not
join NATO earlier, it did not meet the criteria and it still doesn't.
also consider the right of the sovereign
nation of Cuba to host medium range nuclear tipped missiles from the USSR back in 1962.

The US was emphatic there is no such right.

and so on.

 

In other news, Julius Caesar backed himself into Brutus’ knife 23 times

 

When the politics is as anti biblical as it is right now in the US,
there is a need to oppose our politics of war and death with
a biblical stance, in my opinion.

When the US decided to move NATO/OTAN weapons into Ukraine,
both France and Germany disagreed, but went along with it because
they don't fund most of NATO,

The Russian Federation, not just the President but the entire government
agreed this was an unacceptable encroachment.

And it was generally known that the Russian Federation is a nuclear
country, but the mad Biden Administration decided to go ahead with
the plan anyway accepting the possibility that most of the US population
might die, though trusting the Russian Federation was not going to play
Russian Roulette with millions of people.

 

And after the help we gave Israel with gaining nuclear weapons,
the US is now still willing to challenge the rest of the Middle East
to gain for Israel the last part of the shallow sea in the SE
Mediterranean, to gain the Natural Gas deposit there.

Risking a huge number of deaths again.

the churches need to say:

“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses.
Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose
life, so that you and your descendants might live! (Deuterium 30 v 19)

(or maybe Deuteronomy 30 v19)

 

As the data I showed in Post 15 indicates, Ukraine was in 2014 equally split between
populations looking East and those looking West, so the term pro Ukraine is difficult
to define.

 

That was not a vote to join or not join Russia.

It is completely irrelevant to your case. Presenting it as something else is simply Russian agitprop.

But to more closely answer your OP. Priesthood of the Believer - look it up.

 

Is it a "Biblical stance" to allow Russia to conquer Ukraine?

Where do you find that?

Also, it seems your reaction actually has more to do with fear of Russian reaction. That should NOT be your guide in what is Biblical.

 

People have been vague over what Ukraine's right to join NATO meant.

Pres. Putin stated that for Ukraine to join NATO would be crossing the
brightest of all red lines.

It would mean moving missiles closer to Moscow and both the US and
NATO were clear that the missiles could not be inspected to check if
they carried conventional or nuclear warheads, and that what NATO did
in Ukraine was none of Russia's business.

I recall the US was very upset about the USSR placing missiles in Cuba
and was likely to start WW3, but somehow

it's OK for NATO to place a lot more nuclear armed missiles just third of
the distance from Moscow, and that Russia was needlessly alarmed.


IF the church cares about 'do unto others' then the church should understand
Russia's concern.

But most churches just go with whatever ethics and morals their host
countries say.

Notice how the mainstream churches didn't object to the war in Vietnam,
that was the job of the non mainstream churches and particularly of
the Buddhists.

the mainstream churches are once again just going along with threatening
Russia from Ukraine

 

My churches response is to pray for everyone. That's it. No advice.

 

I don't trust ANY church. As an atheist I see churches as a place to spread untruths and propaganda.

 

My Church, as a rule, doesn't involve itself or take sides in politics or wars. It provides relief packages to anyone in need when possible. I do trust the Church leaders judgment in those matters.

 

There are some 6,000 or more human religions; I’d be condemned in all of them. I am pretty sure if there is a hell, I’d be kicked out of it.

 

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are closer and were member of NATO before this started.

Russia wants Ukraine because it was a key colony in its colonial empire. The people of Russia can stand for Ukraine to be a subservient puppet state but they can't stand for its complete independence. Russia is willing to fight for this. Ukraine is willing to fight for its independence.

It was all a show. JFK knew the Russians were in no position to fight the U.S. in 1963. JFK lost the Bay of Pigs. JFK needed a win for political reasons. The only problems with the nukes in Cuba was Castro's younger nuttier self getting control of them and the later problems they might cause after the fall of the USSR. All this is irrelevant with the advent of ICBM submarines by the USSR and the US.

Being upset was nothing by political showmanship.

One of the things you want to check at churches in the U.S. is whether they have a U.S. flag in the sanctuary. If they do, they obviously will tow the party line. Same for any protestant church in Europe which former ties to the nation.

But you tend to avoid mentioning or maybe you don't know of groups like the Mennonites.

The Roman Catholics tend to be relatively independent.

 

I think churches would do well to stick with religion and avoid politics. Politics is humanity at its worse, probably not a favorable place for churches.

 

My opinion is a church should teach people how to get along with each other and right ethics.

That politics is applied religion.

So if a church gets it's politics wrong, and the churches often conform to the nation's politics,
if a country is small then it will only go to war if necessary, but a big powerful one is unlikely to
ever need to go to war, who would decide to go to war with it?

So if a church in a powerful country conforms to the politics of the country, then it will almost
certainly be wrong, and then it is questionable as to how much you can follow any of the
ethics of that church.

 

Ukraine is a sovereign country. Putin had no right to tell the Ukrainians what to do and what not to do. I know it is hard for Russia to stop giving orders to other countries, but it it time to learn.

 

I've heard that so many times it must be in the news.

Not just Pres Putin but the whole Russian government was as one on this, it wasn't just a pipe dream of the President,
and the US Ambassador in Moscow went around and asked everyone he could reach in the Kremlin and all
said pretty much the same thing, and so did a lot of American diplomats and European ones.

It is the neocons in the US who are the odd ones out.

And go back a bit, it was US policy too -

JFK was firmly of the opinion that the USSR was not allowed to put nuclear tipped missiles in Cuba - a sovereign country.

And equally, the 'right' of Ukraine to join NATO allowing NATO to move it's missiles up to the Russian border.

1/ is not a right, nobody has a right to join NATO, it is a kind of privilege, and I'm not aware that Ukraine met the
requirements to join. Russia applied many years ago to join NATO and was only allowed to join as an associate
in the Partnership for Peace, joining is not a right.

2/ Russia felt threatened by having nuclear missiles three times closer to Moscow if they were in Ukraine that
missiles in Cuba were to Washington.

3/ Russia is not giving Ukraine orders, just one, no nuclear missiles in Ukraine, and not to take the preceeding
step which is to join NATO, that was all, just a prohibition.

And so on...

There is a documentary on the details of the US replacing the government of Ukraine with one of our choosing,
it is Ukraine on Fire by Oliver Stone (2016).

 

Ukraine has the right to choose for itself if it wants to apply to join NATO. NATO has the right to refuse.
Russia should feel threatened about having NATO moving closer to its borders. Russia wouldn’t be able to expand its borders as effectively with NATO containing it. That’s why the countries bordering Russia want to join NATO, they don’t want to be conquered.
Russia obviously covets power in Ukraine. You can tell, because they attempted regime change in Ukraine and failed.