The Myth of the Fatherless Black Child

You were trying to dictate who could or couldn't be christian. That's all I took exception to.

You shouldn't do that.

Yeah that's my point, it's not a very nice thing to say to people.

Lots of things are beyond people's control. So think before you start declaring people aren't Christian.

I made an observation and you confirmed it. Being Christian doesn't really matter if someone wants to divorce you.

That's all I said.

I wouldn't dare tell someone their faith is a lie or that they aren't really Christian. It doesn't matter what they did. They'll answer for things to God not to me. And I want that stick he uses to measure me to be as long as possible I'm no saint.

 

Tell me what is it you want done then? What would solve all this racism that is preventing any blacks from every achieving anything in this country and keeps them on the same economic and freedom levels they were when they were slaves? Tell me what it is that you can't do in this country that I as a white male can do?

And do so without saying anything about money or funds or "investment" we've engaged in hundreds of billions if not trillions down that path already. What do you propose to force blacks to not engage in such high levels of crime and to not be acceptable of lawlessness and theft and other crimes, end such high levels of single mother homes, stop the disregard for educational achievement and acceptance of such high levels of drug and alcohol abuse. What is it white people are supposed to be doing to correct the problems WITHIN the black community?

 

I know one thing that can be done is for people to stop believing in racist myths and spreading racist fear mongering.
Blacks do not engage in "high levels of crime". The poor have higher level of crime and they are the chief victims of crime. 70% of Blacks are working class and above and they are just as law abiding as their economic peers, so the simple fact of being "Black" does not cause crime. BTW crime is down.
African Americans like Native Americans do not have a tradition of scholarship thanks to it being prevented from growing through suppression, but a disregard for educational achievement ? No.
Unmarried mothers do not cause crime. Myth.
A higher percentage of whites have higher levels of drug and alcohol abuse than Blacks or Hispanics.

 

Look at the percentage of blacks in prison.

Compare it to what percentage of the population of the country are black.

It's REALLY simple math and gives an accurate picture.

It's a FACT that blacks are criminals in much higher percentages than any other race.

What you we should be asking is why?

Is it genetic or cultural ?

What can be done about it?

 

Is it genetic or cultural?
An excellent question and I think it is genetic. People can grow up in the same culture, receiving the same information and there will be a psychological bell curve. One end right-wingers and the other end left-wingers. The problem is the far right has attributes that tend toward racism. Those include a low disgust threshold, fear and mistrust of outsiders, seeking the negative in those outside their group, not questioning the fairness of the status quo or tradition, order and authority are more valued than fairness, an inflexible moral sense and not looking beyond their peers for moral guidance.

So, can't left-wingers be racist? Sure, but they don't want to be.

 

False, as a group blacks have a by far disproportionage level of crime and until the black community is willing to face that fact and the fact that such crime is condoned within their communities NOTHING will change and you can't blame that on whites.

Down from COVID days yes but that says little about the HUGE amount of crime that still persist within the black community.

There is no suppression of education of blacks, blacks attended the same schools as white children throughout the country. And yes they have the highest drop out rates turning down the free education which is afforded them.

Are you denying the children especially black males coming from fatherless homes have a higher rate of criminal activity?

First most of the studies require the person answer honestly to the question and people of all races are reluctant to do so but especially the black community according to it's own leaders do not trust such government or other institutions. Second it is also the combining of that with the lower education and workplace achievement and higher crime rates in the black community that multiplies the effect.

Are you claiming there is no problem with drug and alcohol abuse in the black community and the drug and alcohol abuse has no effect on ones success in the workplace and life in general?

So what do you want done? What is your solution? Is it for whites to do something and blacks have no responsibility here?

 

Well one thing I suggested and which you totally ignored was stop with the racist myths and fear mongering. Instead you double downed and carried on with right-wing misinformation. Putting Black culture in the worse possible light because you don't like them. Isn't that right? It seems to be a common theme here.

As I said the poor are the chief perpetrators and victims of crime especially in urban areas, which increases opportunity. Blacks have twice the poverty rate. Can you follow the logic? And saying Blacks "condone" crime, aren't willing to face it and blame whites tells me you know nothing about the Black community and on board with racist myths.

As I said Blacks have been prevented from developing a scholarly tradition. Kept out of higher education in the past. The number one reason Blacks drop out of college is lack of finances. In some places school funding for Black schools was 1/10 of white schools. It has not become a part of their cultural tradition. There is a study on teenagers and homework. Asians did homework for 2 hours, whites 1 hour and Blacks 30 minutes. Totally cultural (and why Asians are the smartest!). Also when Blacks have to identify their ethnicity prior to taking a test they do worse. What does that say? They have bought into the fact that as a Black they are less intelligent than other ethnicities and don't try as hard.

As I said a single parent does not make a child a criminal. There are plenty of criminals with two parents. Statistically a single parent will be closer to poverty and that increases the stressors the child experiences which changes the psychological profile of the child.

As I said whites have a higher incidence of alcoholism and drug addiction than other ethnicities (despite your rationalizations), but of course, it is a problem in all ethnicities. Nobody said it wasn't, but it was on your myth list, as Blacks accept high levels of drug abuse. Do whites? Just more racist nonsense.

 

I directly addressed what you claim were myths nothing the facts. Black culture puts itself where it is not me I merely note it.

Well engaging in crime tends to make a person poor and having lots of crime tends to make communities on a whole poorer wouldn't you agree? Yes if you have

High crime
High broken homes
Low education achievement
Low workplace achievement
High drug and alcohol abuse

your community will be poorer than others wouldn't you agree?

So what more scholarly tradition do you believe I have in my family than you? Blacks have a long history of educational achieve and we have LOTS of black colleges specifically for blacks, whites and asians are not allowed such race based schools. It is in the past few decades that that has fallen as the black family has been broken apart by the GREAT SOCIETY left wing policies and the criminal culture taking over vast parts of it. As I note black chidren and white chidren where I live and across the country all go to the same schools. Blacks have even more funding available for higher education but that is not where the failure is, the failure begins in k-12 grades and drop out rates.

And I challenge you to provide a link to this place where black schools are getting 1/10 the funding of white schools in that same district.

The LACK if a TWO parent, without a father and mother full time in the home, is a leading indicator of whether the child growing will engage in crime and not attain educational achievement. So what is to be done about it? Are you blaming whites for that?

Blacks rates are slightly higher and combined with everything else and as I noted and the studies will note there are disparities which cannot be accounted for because theses studies are mostly self-reporting with

Limitations

Because of the dataset used, this analysis has several limitations. First, the NSDUH data are self-reported and thus subject to recall and social desirability biases, which may vary by racial or ethnic group and type of substance use. For instance, one study found that social desirability concerns were more likely to affect drug use reporting quality in survey data for Black/African Americans respondents than for those from other racial/ethnic groups--a difference that could be attributed to greater concerns with privacy and confidentiality given the population’s historical experiences of oppression, discrimination, and exploitation; distrust of medical researchers; and greater risk of criminal prosecution for drug-related offenses (Johnson & Fendrich, 2005). Such issues may lead to under or overreporting (CBHSQ, 2015).
https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/...ubstance-use-sud-race-ethnicity-2015-2019.pdf



Yes if you have an education, you entered the workforce as soon as you graduated either high school or college, are a dependable productive worker, do not engage in crime, and came from a home with a mother and a father the impact of drug use will be lower SO WHAT. Are you trying to say that drug and alcohol abuse is NOT a problem in the black community?

Don't get your education
Engage in crime
Single parenthood
Do not seek gainful long term employment
Abuse drugs and alcohol

Is the formula for poverty no matter you race, and when you rates are high across the board it is exponiational.

Now you can put your head in the sand and blame whites for all the problems within the black community and nothing will change. Or acknowledge that change must come from within and seek measures to aid that and bring about the necessary changes.

 

Oh? You say "Black culture puts itself there it is not me I merely note it" with right-wing myths and factoids, like Blacks "condone" crime, aren't willing to face it, blame whites and they accept high levels of drug abuse. And crime causes the poor? I think you have it backwards. Your willful ignorance of 400 years of American history of Blacks being prevented from obtaining an education in every way possible as in under under Jim Crow, the funding disparities for schools in the Deep South states, where blacks outnumbered whites in hundreds of rural countries, were the greatest. South Carolina's disparity was $53 to $5, a disparity of more than 10-to-one. Education was not seen as a way to earn a living, because they were prevented from entering the professions and a scholarly tradition was suppressed. You come in and smugly say see now they have all this opportunity, why aren't they up to speed?

And more willful ignorance. As I said that 70% of Blacks are working class and above are just as law abiding as their economic peers, so it is not the fact that a person is Black that causes crime, there are other reasons. The right seems to get misty for the time before the "Great Society" when in '64 a quarter of the population lived in poverty and 42% of Blacks. The good old days when everyone knew their place.

The old right-wing mythologized "The LACK if a TWO parent" blah blah blah is an example of correlation implying causation, which is not necessarily true. Unless you want a simple answer and ignore history. further reading posts #107, 175

 

And you ignore the history of blacks in America and the advances they made in the 100 years after slavery even with Democrat Jim Crowe when education was valued, when crime was discouraged and criminals disdained and fathers were in the home and gainful employment encouraged and valued. You ignore the decline in the black community has occurred SINCE the great politically expediant shift by the Democrats to create the welfare state and the break up of the black family and the shift to the gangsta mentality and acceptence of crime as a way to get stuff you want which we witness routinely these day a scale previously unimaginable with the gang rush in and clean out the store PLANNED AND ORGANIZED by that community. Which or course drives out the businesses and the jobs driving everyone into poverty. And yet you want to blame it on whites.

Almost 60% of black men have been in jail and have criminal records. Almost 80% of black babies are born into single mother families. YES my middle class black neighbor is law abiding and an economic peer PROVING it IS possible for blacks to be law abiding and economically successful so there goes your blame it on whites excuse. But in those predominately black communities it is a far different story, just read your local news every morning and see where the crime is disporpotionately especially violent crime occurring.

YES they all have the opportunity to graduate high school with a good education prepared to enter the workforce in gainful employment or attend a school of higher education (even more change to do that than other races) and then enter the workforce. Yet a disproportionate number do not take advantage of that and we see the results in Chicago, LA, Detriot and other black communities large and small.

So again I ask what is it that you want done especially what is it you want whites to do to fix these problems within the black communities. Those big stores that have suffered all those losses and are being run out are mostly owned by whites who invested in them. The properties owned to try and provide housing mostly owned by whites trying to invest there. The support payments and grants and housing subsidies are mostly paid by white taxpayers. What else is it you want done that will end the problems within the black community?

 

"And you ignore the history of blacks in America and the advances they made in the 100 years after slavery even with Democrat Jim Crowe when education was valued"
So, you begin with a willfully ignorant statement and continue with your racially skewed vision of America and fake empathy for Blacks of the imagined past...
After Emancipation the Black population was near 100% in poverty. By 1940, 75 years later, 87% were in poverty. Do you think they were well educated? Do you think most of the Black population chose to live in poverty? Something else must have been going on. Maybe you should read up on it. By 1960, Blacks had a poverty rate of 47%. That was not due to advances in education but industrialization. Blacks came north to work in the steel mills and car factories. Education was not a priority, but the world changed in the 70s and 80s and a culture is left fumbling to deal with it.

The African American community has always had high single parent rates due to instability caused by poverty. It was 20% prior to the "war on poverty", but probably higher because of shame, with hidden pregnancies, giving the child to relatives and adoption. The shame is gone now for all ethnicities. See: Where's my Baby Daddy? thread. BTW where did you get 80%?

Speaking of numbers, I don't know where you get yours, but: By age 23, 49 percent of black males, 44 percent of Hispanic males and 38 percent of white males have been arrested. Yeah, they are bad numbers, but whites are no angels. And you continue with your racist myths; Black people don't discourage or disdain crime? Trying to understand the causes of crime is seen by right-wingers as making excuses for crime, which is beyond ignorant. It is being proactive and the right likes reactive. They break law, they go jail. I can give a list as to why the high rate of incarceration of Blacks vs whites and you would call it making excuses.

I do not want "whites" to fix the problems of the Black community. You act like they are citizens of a foreign country that are asking for aid. They are fellow citizens whose culture has been designated as the lower caste for 400 years. They want to live in a casteless society and they ain't there yet. The country as a whole, not "whites", needs to work on that.

 

Between 1949 and 1969 the poverty rate for black men fell from 71% to 16% then came he great society and it fell 5 more the next ten years. For white men it fell from 31% to 6% and then barely half a point after the great society programs started. Same for women So yes there was a HUGE decrease between the end of slavery and the great society. Blacks have not always had high rates of single motherhood and until the black community is willing to acknowledge that nothing will improve.

 

You have a dubious history with numbers that can't be easily found with a google search, but let's pretend 16% is true, although Black poverty rate for '69 was 32%. As I noted earlier this was the time of industrialization and Blacks moving north (the 2nd Great Migration) before it all went to schitt.
You seem to have more right-wing myths about great society programs. It wasn't a jobs program it was a social safety net for the poor like Medicaid/Medicare, Head Start, food stamps, also measures to integrate schools and prevent voter suppression.
More racist myths: the Black community doesn't acknowledge it has high rates of single mothers. They do and that does not change anything despite your theory. The developed world is making marriage optional. As I noted elsewhere Iceland has a 69% single mother birth rate and is one of the safest countries in the world. Here, single mother birthrates are up in all ethnicities and more common the lower the income. Statistically the lower the income the higher the likelihood of crossing paths with the law.

 

No more or less dubious that yours for which you supplied no link. I know full well what was the Great Society I also lived through it and watched as it broke apart black families growing up in the Deep South in the late 50's and 60's. We know how that has deeply effect black communities even after the tens of billions that have been spent of those programs. And all I have to do is turn on the TV this morning and watch this black city or that black city and the officials calling for new programs to stop this EXPLOSION of crime that is ruining those communities and running out the jobs and opportunities and driving even more poverty. Statistically the black community has the highest rates over all others by far and YES that is starting to tricking down even into those others communities which are in fact shrinking in this country.

So again I ask what is your solution? What should the government do what can it do until the black community itself acts on the forefront of changing those social attitudes and stop trying to blame others. I'm all ears for something besides more taxpayer money and it's all because whites are all racist.

 

Here are my sources for numbers used:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...years-since-the-other-america-in-five-charts/
https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/births-out-of-wedlock-europe-us/

Now its your turn.

You "watched as it broke apart Black families"? As demonstrated through much of this back and forth you don't seem to know much about your fellow citizens besides racist myths from the right-wing. I suggested you check out the "Where's my Baby Daddy" thread. It explains why the surge in single parents and it is not due to the "Great Society". Crime is actually down but you wouldn't know that if you are immersed in right-wing media which tends to fear mongering. What is up is gun use. Anyone can get one and all the ammo they can afford, which the right leads the way in preventing any control over. I have a list on what can be done with gun control, like a national FOID card, one gun purchase a month, ban ghost guns, raise the age, 10 shot magazine limit, gun training before purchase, mandatory NICS and 4473 on all gun transactions......

What can be done? Quit being racist and have a little empathy. We could have available quality preschools. Mothers have to choose keeping the child at home and not working because they can't afford preschool working at a service industry job. Medicaid could pay for LARCs, tubals and abortions. Blacks were discriminated against when trying to buy a home. It is the chief way to build generational wealth, that is one reason why Blacks have 1/10 the wealth of whites. A reduced down payment program would help. I heard a university administrator say at state universities the state at one time picked up 70% of the cost and students 30%, but now the state gives 20% and the student 80%, forcing students to take out huge loans or drop out if the family doesn't have the funds.

 

As expected blame the current condition of black communities' on whites and demand white's pay more money to support black communities and all the bad decisions and choices made within it. NOTHING about the black community itself taking any responsiblity. Nothing about bringing back the importance of attaining a basid education or demanding the government either insure one is attained or let's others try. Nothing about ending the criminal culture and the mass ORGANIZED theft that has run business and jobs out of those communities. Nothing about requiring mothers and fathers of black children provide a proper nuclear family.

I earned EVERY DIME OF MY WEALTH as 98% if whites do no one hands out wealth to whites. Generational wealth is a myth it rarely last beyond three generations. I didn't get a DIME from my grandparents let alone great grandparents, not a dime was magically passed down between generations. You want wealth the stay out of crime, get married in your late twenties, do not have children out of wedlock, get your education, do not abuse drugs and alcohol, get a job and do you best to ensure your employer makes money and stays in business and SAVE and build your own wealth. There is NOTHING preventing blacks from CHOOSING to do so.

 

I see you didn't follow my advise.
I think you've been waiting for "what can be done" answer to vent your geezer rant along with another dubious number. If you had ever stopped and thought about it some of those suggestions would save tax money and where did I blame whites? I am saying we should help our fellow citizens to make this a better county by supporting good choices.
Believe it or not most Blacks are hard working and law abiding. The ones you do not like are the poor ones, but you seem to put all Blacks in that category. Now what's that called?

 

You said in order to fix it whites have to stop being racist.......that's all you got and nothing will change because whites aren’t the problem. Until the black community will acknowledge that nithing will change.

 

You're right, 100% of black children have fathers, it's just 70% don't grow up with one around.

 

It seems my response got pulled for "insinuations". So let me put it another way. Racism is part of the problem. Only the US has had a designated, enforced underclass since inception and that is the Black race. It is part of the countries DNA. We have lately evolved, but it is difficult for some. They cling to racist myths like Blacks condone crime, if the mother is single a father is not around, they can't be trusted, they are lazy, low intelligence......you know the list better than I. The undercurrent that they are the underclass remains in the minds of all races and changes the behavior of all races.

And "all you got" is "until the black community will acknowledge that (problems) nothing will change." They've been doing that for years, but it is all of society that needs to change not just African Americans.

And speaking of racist myths, 100% of that 70% grow up with a father never around.

 

Edna, clearly I'm dealing with someone who has issues, so bless you for that. You have massive skewed view of American, and the world at large. You definitely need remedial history classes.

 

It wasn't an insinuation it was a vile and repugnant and fallacious accusation against a fellow member here. If you can't be civil we will not continue.

How much a part of the problems within the black community are because of whites?

How do whites cause the disproportionately higher crime especially violent crime and repeat crime especially by young black males? How do whites cause blacks en masse to organize themselves through social media to engage in the mass thefts of private businesses which are ACCEPTABLE within the black community? How do whites cause the disproportionate single motherhood that exist in the black community which we know across all racist causes higher instances of failure both for the mother AND the children?

How have whites enforced you into the underclass? What about my black neighbors why aren't they under my class?

The mass theft that continues to grow, the gangsta rap that promotes it, the "Don't snitch" campaigns, the anti-police support the criminals campaigns, show me the marches and protest against BLACK CRIME that impoverishes their communities.

We are seeing more and more primarily by conservatives blacks then they are shouted down and dismissed and insulted by the Dems/Left/MSM and the socalled "Black Leaders".

The FACTS speak for themselves..........YES a single mother is far likely not to attain a high school education or higher education, that means they are less employable do you deny not. That is not a matter or race. But the fact remains incidence of single motherhood is by far disproportionate within the black community so it suffers the greater harm. There is nothing racist about noting that. The question is why blame that on whites and racism?

Then why hasn't there been change and in fact things have gotten worse in our black urban areas? What is being done WITHIN the community to end the crime and end the lack of educational achievement and the breakdown of the nuclear family.

And as long as the denials nothing will change. And it's not a matter of just "being around".

 

Well bless your heart.

"An insinuation it was a vile and repugnant and fallacious accusation". I think a little introspection on your part is in order. Lawlessness in the Black community is "ACCEPTABLE"? You ignore 400 years of American history to blame the victim. It made them the underclass. Yes, you go over your laundry list of why you don't like Blacks and the bad things they do while accusing all of them as participants. That clearly demonstrates that you are on board with the belief that African Americans are the underclass and should be treated and thought of that way. I suspect all this may be beyond your ability to understand, but our two class system effects Black behavior as well. Setting them apart makes some feel alienated from society as a whole so the young may seek micro-societies which is not always a good thing. Others seek to prove they are not a member of the underclass by driving a BMW, designer clothes, etc., but they all believe they are members of an underclass because that is the environment they grew up in and that is what needs to change.

 

And when you can't defend on the merits of your argument engage in your vile invective. As I said things will not change with that attitude. You should take such efforts and apply to rising above the underclass as thousands of blacks in this country have and do so everyday. Blaming your misfortunes on others simply because they are of another race will get you nowhere. We're done I don't argue motives others fallaciously assign to me.

 

Your avatar is from the KKK. so you haven't studied anything.

"Trayvon Martin had a father. Jordan Davis had a father. Michael Brown had a father. Tamir Rice had a father. Having a father won’t protect black boys from America. " - Mychal Denzel Smith