Trump can pay smaller bond in civil fraud case as judge sets April date for hush money trial

Pretty sure that is not true

 

Bro, Trump's lawyer did not request a jury trial.

 

Trump peed on hooker? He is a nasty person.

 

.... wow. AGAIN you don't know what you're talking about.

"Trump’s lawyers say the New York state law that state Attorney General Letitia James used to bring the complaint against him – a civil statute giving the state attorney general wide latitude to go after “persistent fraud” in business – did not allow him to request a jury trial."

 

Oh yeah, that was his rape case. Hard to keep his 93 cases straight.

 

Trump has no cred. He is a pathological liar. A sociopath who has conned a LOT of people through many decades. He is also delusional IF he believes what he says. What he says is for his tibe's consumption. He repeats it and repeats it and now there is a large group that actually believe his lies and manipulations, and that he is the victim. NOT TRUE..........HE and ONLY HE created the mess he is in. He has a long history of poor business tactics, bankruptcies and shafting employees etc. His past and present rhetoric matters as it goes to the character of the man. Why do his supporters want him to avoid being responsible for his actions.?? What makes him the exception to every rule written?? One thing has become clear: His followers will support him NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES and SAYS. That suggests they lack critical thinking......at the very least. And have opted for group think which makes them ripe for another form of Gov't.
No system is flawless. Systems are the product of humans and humans are definitely not flawless. But the system has worked quite well for many years. and to destroy it (as trump is inclined to do) will only leave chaos......and disorder. The systems in place help to keep humanity civil.
Fact: Sociopaths are a major challenge to deal with. Rich ones are particularly challenging as they are so manipulative .......and usually get others to do their dirty work for them, and when they are no longer useful, they are discarded as trash. Trump has a LONG history of people he used. abused and destroyed. People who went to jail after doing his bidding. Given the power , sociopaths ignore al l social boundaries as they don't apply to them. (in their minds )
Oh and most sociopaths cannot be treated. They need to be "contained" and this is hard in a free society. They are cunning, devious m resourceful in a self preservation way. Just like Trump.......they have no conscience and feel no guilt.. or remorse and in their minds they are never wrong.(someone else is to blame) It is just NOT in their "wiring"
They love getting into politics as that is an arena where if they do a pretty good sales job......they gather a following. They totally are in it for the POWER & self aggrandization.

Sociopaths of his caliber make sure they are in the news cycle as much as possible. We are seeing wall to wall coverage of trump, his language, his trials, and his legal problems. This will continue .......indefinitely, as if he wins........he has the spot light, If he loses he will MAKE himself the spotlight .......which he has done since his last loss) Well, in HIS mind ,he did not lose Bottom line: he is one sick dude.(but he has wealth- he says- and influence , so that is what matters to some.

 

Isn't THAT the truth???

 

And you would be WRONG….

Ergoron clearly stated in his ruling

Thats the entirety of the case and WHY he was found guilty.

You act like Engoron had to stand up every time he got a value because he was pulling them out of his a$$. HE literally got here from the assessors office.

Trump valued Mar-A-Largo at a $739 MILLION when using it as collateral on these loans… but for tax purposes he paid the assessed value of $37 million….now we all can give a little, but 20X is why he is in the legal trouble he is in today

 

Really? That is the entirety of the case? That’s crazy!

 

What makes you think trump will leave after another 4 years? He tried not to last time….

 

That sounds like you are speaking from personal experience........Yes?? So you support all of Trump's tactics .... ...will you be buying shares in "truth" social" to help him out?? Go for it.

 

For the most part yes.

He is over inflating his assets to get more favorable terms, and to get more money.

Thats illegal because if he were to default on the loan, the bank would loose money. Thats why this is a law. Personally, I think the banks should do their own due diligence and not just expect the borrower to be truthful. On simple things like residential mortgages thats pretty easy, but with the big deals like Trump is doing, when valuations a business, it’s a different game. So when those business owners cook their books, and lie about their finances (like Trump did) thats why their are laws to protect the lenders.

 

How is tax value determined for a club there, and how does that differ from market value? How many different valuations can a property have? What is the market value for Mar-a-lago?

I will answer the first one for you:

They do tax assessments based on the clubs income, not the property’s actual value.

 

But we had him this time!!!!????????

 

For the most part...

 

Excellent point. If folks think he will quietly leave......they might need to do a rethink. We ALL have seen how he mishandled the loss last time. He has learned a lot more since then.....so He would NOT be happy to graciously leave. ONLY IF it serves him better to leave than to try and stay . Folks need to realize that it is ALL ABOUT HIM ......... that is the core of his being. What he promises or spins or lies about......is just "marketing".

 

I never said differently. I just stated what the assessors office valued it at, and what Trump valued it at. And they are WILDLY different….

But as to “market value”, would you pay

His net operating income on Mar-a-Lago is $37m……now would you pay $1BILLION for a place that makes $37m a year ?Nobody would. Again, he is valuing it low for tax purpose so he doesn’t have to pay, but overvaluing it when he makes the money….but thats the crux of the issue here is that hes telling the banks its worth $1b, when in reality its worth less than 1/10th of that.

Thats illegal. Its illegal if you do it on your house, why not for his business ?

 

Seems the rules are different/ special for Trump........as per his supporters views. That is why they accept his nonsense about the system being against him. He has dodged rsponsiblity al his life. and continues to do so now. That seems ok with his tribe of followers.
His "value " system is warped...........and they are adopting it at face value.. As they believe what he tells them.

 

So you don’t have a market value(that’s a tax assessor value based off the business only, not the land or buildings etc) and are claiming that a property owner using its market value is illegal if different than tax value. I can find houses listed for more than their tax assessors value. It’s not illegal.

You really didn’t answer any of my questions. It’s ok to say I don’t know.

 

frantic Trump Hater Steven Colbert appears to be close to stroking out over this news.

 

What a dolt. You've obviously taken the blue pill.

Your statements about Trump Casinos couldn't be more slanted.

Can you list a single case going back to the time of Hammurabi were charges such as these have been levied, let alone achieved a conviction in even a lower court such as this. This judge and AG went so far outside the rule of law it is astounding they themselves haven't been thrown in prison. This is 3rd world banana republic kangaroo court injustice. The American people are not stupid. They see what is going on here. And the DNC will pay a price for these kinds of tactics. I won't ever vote Democrat again (assuming we have another chance).

I can handle all the mistakes and the massive levels of incompetence. But what I find completely unacceptable is the destruction laid upon our rule of law. They have attacked our system of justice, and our election processes to the point where we now find ourselves on a knifes edge here. Make your case with policy debate, NOT by subverting the rule of law and using the DOJ and judicial system as a weapon against your political opponents. The republic is in serious jeopardy here. This goes well beyond Left vs Right, Dem vs Rep. The DNC has obviously recognized the transparencies regarding their levels of incompetence makes policy debate unwinnable at this point, even if Biden were of sound mind and body. This is why they have resorted to these inane legal attacks.

 

Good Friday's looking good, real good.


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·13h
Received this morning—Beautiful, thank you!

“It’s ironic that Christ walked through His greatest persecution the very week they are trying to steal your property from you. But have you seen this verse…?”

Psalm 109:3–8 (NKJV):

 

That really confirms his delusions of Grandiosity. In simple terms : he is getting more unhinged al the time.

 

And if this case had followed true justice, he would have been penalized that 37 million and interest. The actual violation that Trump occurred. This novel idea of "stripping his gains" is not found in any application of civil tort cases. Trump's gains, no matter how he got them cannot be seen as a damage. No one else would've gotten that $739 million either.

In the first place, banks can't WAIT to get rid of property and title liens. This is because the bank is in principle a seller, not a buyer. The more a property or mortgage is owned by a bank, the more value it loses. So if Trump got favorable loans and repaid them, the bank is satisfied. Even if someone else could've gotten them if not for Trump, the bank could argue(as I understand they did to some extent) that given Trump's quality as a prospective buyer, it would be a unknown risk if anyone else got those properties.

So while everyone celebrated the idea of the banks getting these properties, in actual banking/real estate this is a headache for the state/banks to liquidate.

 

At no point in the process of getting the loan was Mar-a-Lago valued at 739 million! This is just a complete lie. The loan was to buy adjacent property and make improvements to Mar-a-lago. As such, the bank was making a loan based not only on the current value of Mar-A-Lago ($22 million), but what it would be worth after the $107 million loan improvements were completed. This is why the bank was involved in decisions made regarding improvements.

Mar-a-lago was purchased in 1994 for between 7 and 8 million. Attempts to improve the property were held up until 2014 due to several complaints being filed with the Municipal Planning Office claiming it would produce dust and noise which would prevent others in the neighborhood from enjoying their property. All legal and licensing hurdles with the planning office were surmounted by 2014. Due to increases in property values in the area (very hot market) the tax assessed value (TAV) of Mar-a-lago had increased to $18 million at the time of the loan. The TAV is the assumed value of the property when property taxes are paid at the end of the year. Tax-assessed values are always less than 90% of the appraised market value of properties. The tax offices do this to avoid endless litigation with tax-payers claiming their properties aren't worth as much when their property taxes are calculated. It is done in every county in the US billions (not millions) of times a year when they calculate property taxes. So the less than 90% assessment was $18 million. Understand, however, the value of a property is a guess. No one knows the realized value of a property until it is sold. Assuming the TAV was 90% this would result in a market estimate of $18/0.9=$20 million provided you used the TAV method to arrive at YOUR estimate.

At the heart of the matter is this....

On the loan application in Section IIA it requests the applicant "Please list any assets being offered as collateral". Trump's team listed Mar-a-lago itself as collateral.
On the loan application in Section IIB it requests the applicant "Please provide YOUR estimate of the value of all items listed in Section IIA". Trump's team referred to an addendum attached to the application as space was insufficient. In the addendum they provided a litany of information regarding recent sales in the area, the amount paid per square foot, yada yada yada (quite detailed and too lengthy to go into here). The resulting assessment of the value of Mar-a-Lago by Trump's team at that time was $22 million. Pretty close to the $20 arrived at using the TAV (a much more primitive valuation) from the Tax offices estimate (no where near 739 million???!!! Ridiculous lie). Furthermore, Trump's team included a disclaimer in this same addendum which stated, "The methods used to determine this estimate are detailed above. These estimates are our own estimates made in good faith and SHOULD NOT be construed as a guarantee of the actual market value at any time now or in the future. The lending institution is encouraged to do their own assessment of what it considers the fair market value of the property now, and after any planned improvements are completed."

The bank did indeed do their own assessment and concluded the current value to be "at or above" $22 million, and determined the final value of the property after renovations, etc. (what they REALLY care about) would well exceed the $107 million loan request. They were correct, as it is now valued between 850 and 1400 Millions). Any dispute over a mere $2 million discrepancy in the value of the unimproved property paled in comparison to what the bank estimated the value renovations would add. On the basis of their own independent assessment, they approved the loan of:

$107 million at 2.6% over a 30 year term. Incidentally, I got a loan to buy a house at about the same time at a slightly lower rate for no money down. Trump paid the loan back early, with interest, in 40 months.

Issue #1
The AG ran on a campaign based in its entirety on the promise, "If you vote for me I guarantee you I will tirelessly work 24/7 on nothing else until I find SOMETHING to charge Donald J. Trump with." This is a clear violation of the public trust and does not meet the ethical conduct required to clear the Bar. Any such statements made by a member of the Bar clearly warrant recusal or removal from any investigation or litigation in regards to DJT. Any such involvement demands the judge throw the case out Prima Facie. They are also clear grounds for the Bars removing her right to practice law whatsoever. Furthermore, as she is an elected official it is grounds for the legislature to draw up articles of impeachment against the AG. This does not meet any of the standards of the US judicial system, or any other country save your odd Banana Republic. We do not pick out political targets then attempt to find a crime. That is something reserved for nations like the former USSR under Stalin where they would pick 40,000 people and charge them with baseless crimes because they needed 40,000 slave laborers to complete the Siberian Railroad. This is very concerning and outright disturbing! We can not tolerate such egregious weaponization of our judicial system. This goes well beyond partisan party politics and ALL TRUE Americans have cause for alarm.

Issue #2
Due process for civil litigation requires a complaint be filed by an injured party. For example, if someone refuses to pay back a personal loan you can file a civil complaint and take them to court. The judicial system does not involve itself, whatsoever, in matters of private contracts without a complaint/tort being filed by an injured party. On what basis did the AG's office insert itself into a private contract? It is without cause or complaint to even BEGIN an investigation into a private contract (privacy rights too). Trump's motion to dismiss in this regard was overruled by what was obviously a highly biased cherry-picked judge on the basis of the response to motion claiming "stockholders of the bank were damaged". Under US law banks and other corporations are considered no different than people. Anything a person can legally do a corporation can do. They can be sued, file torts, file complaints, you name it. That is really all a corporation is, a legal person on paper. As such, under US Law it is the board which is empowered with the ability to act in the legal interests of the company (not the stockholders). If stockholders have an issue with the board's legal activities, their redress is to sell the stock or attempt to vote them out. None even complained, nor would it matter if they did complain. Any such complaint by a stockholder would be thrown out Prima Facie. The board clearly did not file any complaint and testified they were happy with the approval and return on investment. To claim individual stockholders were injured party and permit them to file complaints on behalf of an entire corporation would essentially up-end all existing precedents in corporate law! It would be absolute mayhem if I were allowed to buy $1 worth of Apple then go around filing torts against my political enemies. The courts would be inundated with trillions of torts.

Issue #3
Never in the history of US finance (or any other country you could name) going back to the time of Hammurabi has someone been charged for providing an inaccurate estimate of what THEY BELIEVE their collateral is worth. The reason for this is obvious as no prosecution could prove whether the applicants state of mind truly agrees with their provided estimate. E.g. an applicant for an auto loan could claim his 2000 Toyota Corolla, billowing black smoke, is worth $1 Trillion and you STILL couldn't prosecute for several reasons. Most glaringly is the difficulty in proving state of mind of the applicant. It could be the applicant is just a horrible judge of the value of automobiles. Additionally, there are fiduciary boundaries in finance law which in no way burden the applicant. The fiduciary responsibility is placed on the lending institution. The lending institution/person is the one required under US Law to do their own due diligence in arriving at their own independent valuation when entering into a lending agreement. If a friend of mine tells me I can hold onto his lawnmower as collateral (which he tells me is worth $1 million) until he pays me back a $1 million dollar loan, I have no basis for claiming damages due to HIS estimate. It is on the lender who is responsible to do their own assessment before agreeing to the terms. Obviously, since they are the ones who lose money if the loan is not repaid. With BILLIONS of loan applications occurring every year not one time in the history of US Law has this statute been used to prosecute a defendant for the inaccuracy of THEIR OWN ESTIMATE. The only prosecutions under this statute for loan fraud regard applicants who listed items in IIA which they do not legally own (and it can be proven they did so with the intent to defraud). Not even a single person has been charged in regard to THEIR estimates in section IIB. IIB is only even included on the application to provide the applicant the opportunity to inform the lender of circumstances/issues which the lender may not be aware. Most all of us are familiar with loan applications. I'm sure everyone is shocked to hear they could be prosecuted for providing their own good-faith estimate which doesn't agree with that of the AG and/or the judge (who have no business even looking into my private loan agreements without cause to do so. In this case not even the bank disagreed with the estimate. Have any of you ever listed the value of a automobile on a loan to be in "excellent" condition when looking up the NADA value when it is likely a borderline call? Would prosecution for YOUR OPINION be justified?

Issue #4
The right to a trial by jury was denied based on the strange ruling by the judge that NY statutes supposedly only guarantee the right to a jury in cases for which there are both a plaintiff and a defendant. Since there were no plaintiffs, the right to a jury was denied. I don't know if this is in accordance with NY law but I highly doubt it since it is a Constitutional right. Additionally, he ruled Letitia James' office filed a motion they were ready for trial and checked a box indicating the state requested no trial by jury (no doubt why with this judge), which according to him started a 15 day clock within which the defendant could respond, requesting their right to trial by jury. This actually isn't the case, both parties have 15 days to notify the court whether they are ready to proceed. A hearing then determines the scheduling of the proceedings and jury considerations. Even if both parties forego the right to trial by jury (a requirement), they can rescind the request as long as they do so within 15 days of the trial date. Trump's legal team was only served the papers shortly before the hearing and was surprised to learn the hearing was almost underway. The judge indicated he was foregoing some of the normal scheduling processes in order to comply with the prosecutions desire to speed up the proceedings. According to the AG statements outside the courtroom, this was due to her desire to finish the case before the elections (political motivations to forego due process?). The judge ruled Trump missed his window of opportunity to a trial be jury.

Issue #5
Since there are no injured parties any damages will be awarded to the state. Not sure what to make of this. It is without precedent because it is without precedent to prosecute a civil case where there is no injured party. This should concern EVERYONE doing business in NY. The AG, judge, and state are not supposed to have a dog in the fight. This violates all judicial norms for an impartial court. It isn't a criminal court in which fines can be levied. In civil law the judiciary is intended to be blind and impartial to the interested parties. The judiciary, by definition and statute, is required to be an uninterested party.

Issue #6
Let's assume all higher courts ignore ALL OF THE ABOVE. Let's further accept the notion the collateral listed was worth $0 dollars. Let's go even further and double the interest rate paid on this non-collateralized loan to 5.4%. BTW, this is well in excess of the mortgage rates at the time which were 2.5-3%. The difference between the loan (assessed and approved by the bank) and this new Fantasy Land valuation would mean total interest paid in the amount of $12,058,123.70 over the 40 months the loan was outstanding. Trump did end up paying ~half of this interest in repayment. This means that even if the valuation provided was $0, the cost to the stockholders would be no more than ~$6 million over the entire 40 months of the loan!!!! The judge then added $466 million in punitive damages to the already absurd direct damages!!! Not to be paid to an injured party, as there were none, but to the state. The amount in damages conspicuously appear to very closely match the entire amount listed on Trump's financial disclosure regarding cash on-hand ear-marked for use during DJT's presidential campaign. This is just ludicrous. Kangaroo court, law-fare by a cherry-picked biased judge and malicious persecution by a maniacal AG. This is an outrage and an injustice. We are apparently on the knife edge of losing the rule of law. Something the Republic is highly unlikely to survive. This injustice isn't being foisted on some everyday citizen (though it very soon may be), it is being done against the leading candidate for the highest office in the land as a means of subverting the election process of the Republic.