Pro-Palestinian protesters shout ‘Allahu akbar’ outside of World Trade Center site

Not at all. Muslims can crack open the Koran and provide a long list of verses that plainly and directly justify their actions of violent jihad against the unbelievers. Takes a tortured and twisted interpretation of the bible to justify wars today.

3You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

38You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." 39But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 4

"Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

Actual Christian doctrine has over the centuries produced martyrs who passively accept executions by governing authorities.

 

No one denied it. Its still irrelevant to my point. Ill wait here while you chase the strawman.

 

LOL, Muslims read the Quran on their own already and come up with a different conclusion that you have come up with, which is "Muslims can crack open the Koran and provide a long list of verses that plainly and directly justify their actions of violent jihad against the unbelievers." The verses you provided do just that. Extremists do not take a literal interpretation and that is what you are not understanding and will never understand that concept. What extremists in the Muslim faith is what extremists do in the Christian faith and in every religion. And those verses disprove your hypothesis, but you just refuse to accept it because you are an extremist yourself. Congrats on proving that with all of your posts and your own actions on this topic.

 

It is totally relevant because it disproves your hypothesis as null and void.

 

They AND the fundamentalist use of them beautifully DEMONSTRATES my point.

 

Your comments regarding the bible dont even address my comments regarding the Koran, let alone disprove them.

 

"By blood and faith, Jews are God's chosen, and have no need for 'dialogue' with any gentile."
--Written in a letter by Anthrax Scientist Bruce Ivins​

Here is something to consider. Right after the 9/11 attacks a group of Israeli spies working uncover for "Urban Movers" were arrested by the FBI after some citizens in New York notice a group of men celebrating as the Twin Towers burned and collapsed. The earliest report of the 9/11 attacks first reported by US News Networks was that it was "Palestinians" that flew the planes into the World Towers.

Not long after the 9/11 attacks a highly advanced form of anthrax was mailed to well-known American news personalities. Some postal workers died from the anthrax. Wiki reports: "The 2001 anthrax attacks involved the mailing of several letters proclaiming, "Death to America ... Death to Israel ... Allah is Great",[28] and contaminated with anthrax, to the offices of U.S. Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, as well as to the offices of ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, the New York Post, and the National Enquirer.[29][30]"

"At first Steven Hatfill, considering him to be the chief suspect in the attacks. In March 2008, however, authorities exonerated Hatfill and settled a lawsuit he initiated for $5.8 million.[33] "

However, authorities instead began to investigate Bruce Edwards Ivins as a suspect because he had the skill and access to this highly refined anthrax. Ivins eventually committed suicide by consuming large doses of Tylenol PM (not codeine as reported). He did not die naturally, but was unplugged by the hospital.

I don't think that Ivins was involved in the 9/11 attacks, but from his religious beliefs wanted instead to placet blame for the attacks onto Palestinians by faking the anthrax letters as from Middle Eastern terrorist.

The FBI tried to portray Ivins as depressed, mentally ill, seeking profit from anthrax antidotes but I think that is a coverup by the U.S. Government to conceal Ivins' real motivation. The US media and FBI has misled the American people yet again.

In other words, Bruce Ivins was a radical Christain Nationalist.

(my video is blocked search by title)
911 Suspect: The Dancing Israelis
[]

​

 

Highlighted in red: Maybe not everyone, but there are some, I would say too many.
"We are a religious state and we are going to fight it to keep that filth out of the state of Oklahoma because we are a Christian state – we are a moral state."

Rep. Tom Woods, R-Westville

I see many similarities in most of the fundamentalist religious people, anywhere, any religion. Think about it, Christianity may be better at hiding it, but when the bottom line is "think and worship as we do or spend eternity in hell", are they that much different? I was harassed on the job because of not being a Christian.
Don't think that the repulsive aspects of Muslims are solely theirs.

 

Oklahoma is a fascist state, and always has been. Ask the Cherokee, Osage, and Creek Indians about the "Christian state." My mother was half Cherokee and father was a Creek Indian. All my uncles and aunts were children in the Great Depression had premature deaths. They never got justice. Oklahoma is a fascist **** hole. Oklahoma politicians are the dumbest and most corrupt you could find. Their brand of Christian nationalism is Magic Jesus stupidity (Oral Roberts). And now the US government is full of Christian Nationalist terrorists very similar to Bruce Ivins. **** Oklahoma. It appears both Zionist and Christian Nationalists have been working in tandem to start a war in the Middle-East in a hub and spoke conspiracy and Trump is exploiting the fascist movement.

 

Thanks for the "Like," LOL!

 

You know I didn't give you a like for that happening to your family, but for you posting your actual personal experiences.
How some people treat people who are 'other' than they are is tragic sometimes. The Christian faith is taught that if one does not believe the way they do they are wrong and deserve punishment. This seems to me antiquated thinking, ok back when we were tribes fighting it out for survival, but not now in modern society where we should be learning that there isn't only one way to think, and that others who look or think differently are bad and wrong.
I see it as a evolution, but it's painfully slow..............

 

I've watched the vid, just going to do a little more reading about the dancing Israelis as this is not a subject I've studied much but kudos for bringing the topic back on point.

 

The grayzone wrote about this. They seemed to conclude that the dancing Israelis had fairly solid Alibis although it is very damning that they were celebrating the twin towers attack.

That doesn't mean they weren't working for mossad. The FBI appeared to believe so at first and as your video explained, hundreds of israelis were subsequently arrested right after the events of 911

 

"To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle."
~George Orwell wrote in 'Why I Write.'
​

You completely missed the point of my post. It's not about the Urban Movers Israeli agents, but political fascist Zionists embedded in the Unites States government. Christian Zionist Bruce Ivins is just one example.

So let me be a little clearer. Is it possible that fascist Israeli Zionists have infiltrated the United States government for decades to directed US military weapons toward their enemies in the Middle-East, i.e., Iran, Lebanon, and Syria? All spending on social programs have been stopped by Republicans and Democrats but military spending is untouched and is mostly going into the Ukraine and their ally Israel.

After watching the video "How Israel exported its occupation to the world | Antony Loewenstein | The Big Picture S3E2," I remembered an article published by the "Times of Israel" that identified at least 11 Zionists in Donald Trump's administration.

Here is a short summary of the Zionists in Trump's administration:

Jared Kushner: Trump’s Orthodox son-in-law is served as a senior adviser to the president to focus on the Middle East and Israel as well as partnerships with the private sector and free trade.

David Friedman: Friedman, a bankruptcy expert and longtime Trump attorney, was tapped as the US ambassador to Israel.

Jason Greenblatt: Greenblatt, the longtime chief legal officer for the Trump Organization, worked as special representative for international negotiations focusing on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, US-Cuba relations and American trade agreements with other countries.

Steven Mnuchin: Trump picked Mnuchin, a former Goldman Sachs executive who worked as Trump’s national finance chairman during the campaign and served as Treasury secretary.

Stephen Miller: Trump named Miller, who has played a crucial role in his campaign by writing speeches as senior adviser for policy.

Carl Icahn: Icahn, a businessman and investor, is served as a special adviser on regulatory reform issues.

Gary Cohn: Cohn, the outgoing president and chief operating officer at Goldman Sachs, headed the White House National Economic Council.

Boris Epshteyn: Epshteyn, a Republican political strategist.

David Shulkin: Shulkin, was the undersecretary for health at the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Reed Cordish: Trump chose Cordish, who is friends with his son-in-law Jared Kushner, to serve as assistant to the president for intragovernmental and technology initiatives.

Avrahm Berkowitz: Berkowitz, 27, served as special assistant to Trump and assistant to Jared Kushner.

However, there are more the article did not mention:

Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, has had notable connections with the extremist fascist Breitbart News. Netanyahu appointed Aaron Klein, a former journalist with Breitbart News, as his campaign chief for the national elections held in March 1

Steve Bannon does not claim a Jewish heritage. He is of Irish and German descent1. However, he has referred to himself as a "Christian Zionist."2

The mainstream American media has suppressed these dangerous connections with fascism. Why were all the key advisers to Trump from one political group proclaiming Jewish heritage? The US Intelligence agencies must be completely asleep, or themselves have been infiltrated by fascist Zionists. All social spending has been routed to the Ukraine, and Israel and only God knows who else.

Does this explain why Israeli police tactics are appearing in US law enforcement policing methods, i.e., blinding protestors, slamming US citizens headfirst into the pavement, and extremist right-wing paramilitary members embedded into police departments wearing a modified black & white, with a blue stripped American flag? In other cases, American employees are threatened with firing for refusing to sign anti-boycott contracts against Israel. All without a mumbling word from our Democratic leaders.

I voted and donated to Bernie Sanders for his two presidential runs. It turns out that it was right-wing Zionists that assisted Biden to sandbag Sanders' campaigns.

​

Timeline: 00:00 - Intro 2:09 - How Israel became a weapons research hub for the West 7:04 - How Israel armed oppressive regimes 9:31 - Israel’s relationship with partheid South Africa 12:15 - The Palestine Laboratory: Testing weapons on occupied subjects 15:52 - Battle testing new weapons in Gaza since 7 October 19:14 - Top Gun & Hollywood military propaganda 22:45 - Gaza news footage used to sell Israeli arms 30:57 - Surveillance technology in hot demand 35:22 - Israel as the ‘border of Europe’ 41:46 - The farright’s obsession with Israel 49:48 - India’s Hindu nationalism modelled on Zionism 55:00 - What has changed since 7 October 1:03:59 - Outro​

 

And then Trump, an avid reader, collects this massive trove of top-secret documents. And course, Trump is careful not to let anyone but those in his ad...min...is...stra...tion to read them. Hmmm. I'm just trying to figure this thing out. Notice that in the mainstream media they never say the word 'treason' except when referring to Julian Assange?

Is it possible? No, it can't be possible--that all those Alt-right extremists, and MAGA crowd, and Q crowd were sold-out by Trump to a foreign extremist fascist government? Because that would mean WE got sold-out with them.

 

It's fairly obvious that USA government has been infiltrated by Zionists, be they Christian or Jewish.

 

This is looking more like prediction than fiction every day.

 

So how do Muslims today read this verse?

Surah 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Cause we certainly know how they interpreted it historically.

"Ibn Rushd (12th century) - well known by his westernised name Averroes - cited a consensus of agreement that this verse entails that Jihad is done for the Purpose of converting kuffar into Muslims or for their Jizya. He wrote:

Why Wage war? The Muslim jurists agreed that the objective of fighting the Kitabis, excluding the Qurayshi kitabis and the Christian Arabs, is one of two: it is either for their conversion to Islam or the payment of the Jizyah. Because He, the Most High said... (9.29)
[ Bidayat al Mujtahid 2/151 ]

Al shafi’i(8th century) who is an Imam of the Salaf, takes it a step beyond merely fighting and says upon this verse that a person from the Kitabi religions may only save his life either by converting to Islam or Paying the Jizyah. He said:

So Allah protected the blood of those who follow the religion of the People of the Issue either by Iman or by paying the Jizyah with willing submission, while feeling themselves belittled.
[ Kitab al Umm 4/302

Imam Babarti al Hanafi (14th century) similarly had the same warlike interpretation, but he was especially careful to emphasise its offensive nature in his explanation of the gradual development of Jihad throughout the Prophetic Lifetime. He said:

‘If they fight you then fight them’(2:191) indicates that you may only fight the kuffar if they fight you, but it has been abrogated and the explanation is that Allah’s Messenger was initially commanded to forbear and turn away from the polytheists, with His saying, “forbear with a beautiful forbearance, and turn away from the polytheists.” Then He commanded him to call to the religion with admonishment and disputation with goodness, with His saying, “call unto the path of your Lord with wisdom.” Then he was permitted to fight when the initiation was from them, with His saying, “it is permitted for those who fight” and with His saying, “thus, if they fight you, then you fight them.” Then He commanded initiating fighting in some periods of time with His saying, “thus, when the sacred months have passed, fight the polytheists (9:5)”, then He commanded initiating fighting absolutely; in all time periods and places, He said, “and fight them until there be no fitnah(8.39) and ‘fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day’ (9:29)
[ Inayah Sharh Hidaya 5/441 ]

In the same vein, Ibn Kathir had also derived a verdict that the fighting against the People of the Book is ordered by Allah on the basis of Belief and not on the basis of their hostility. However he wrote this on the verse after 9:29 He said:

Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because They are Idolators and Disbelievers
[ Tafsir Ibn Kathir 9.30 ]

I can go on if you'd like. See your problem is there is no other way to interpret that verse other than giving direct orders to fight people who aren't Muslim until they convert to Islam or pay the jizya which is a tax on those who willfully submit to Islam so that they don't get ****ing murdered.

 

Oh hell that's easy. Because they want to wipe us off the face of the planet lol

Let me ask you this. Let's assume somehow that the Palestinians became a superpower and had millions of people and arms. What do you think they would do?

They would MURDER anyone who wasn't Muslim. They would wipe Israel off of the face of the map and attempt to wipe us off the face of the map. They would rape torture and murder our men women and children for the SOLE fact that they're not Muslim. They would take our children and our wives as sex slaves and pass them around their camps until they were bleeding from every orifice.

So tell me again why we should give even one slight **** what happens to those animals? And tell me why we shouldn't wipe them out before they get the opportunity to do it to us.

 

And for the record. I don't even like the jews because of their long history of communism and socialism. Hell those morons live in socialist communes today called kibbutz. ****ing commie Idiots.

However if the Palestinians did to us what they did to the Israelis I would expect us to respond in such a manner that anything within the "territory of Palestine" that breathes would be eradicated. Men, women, children, elderly, insects, dogs and anything else that had life in its body.

What Israel should do is announce that anyone in Palestine has 30 days to leave. Under armed protection from the Israelis. Doesn't matter who they are, handicapped or children or women or even the terrorists themselves. They are all welcome to leave under armed guard of Israel and will not be harmed.

But once that 30 days has passed if you remain in Palestine you will be considered an enemy combatant and will be dealt with as such. And then they need to turn Palestine into a glass factory.

 

At the time that much of the Qur'an was written, they were at war - and not of their own choosing.

Remember that Jihad is primarily meant as an internal struggle for improvement.

You need to ask MUSLIMS what those quotes mean.

Remember that someone could read the Bible and come to some absolutely horrible conclusions.

How does one explain that God aided Joshua in slaughtering every man, woman, child and animal in Jericho? That action was taken for the purpose of stealing land, and was a threat to other cities - who capitulated lest they be slaughtered in the same fashion. In other words, that was abject terrorism, aided by God.

Someone unversed in the Abrahamic faiths could come to conclusions with which we would not concur today.

 

This is a ludicrous hypothetical steeped in abject hate.

Besides, a quarter of Earth's total population is Muslim.

Nobody with an ounce of morality would consider genocide, including of Palestinians.

 

You can find verses like that in the OT but not from Jesus Christ. And Christians don't follow the OT. They follow the NT and Jesus' doctrine (or they're supposed to).

However, show me in the historical record where the Muslims during the time those verses were written were at war with or were attacked by Christians or Jews. You can't because it doesn't exist.

Surah 9:29 was written during a period when they were at war and fighting with pagans but instead of just focusing on pagans the writer knew he had to address Judaism and Christianity when he made the statement to fight those who believe not in Allah. Because if you just say "fight those who believe not in Allah" because you're at war with the pagans, someone will inevitably ask "well what about Christians and Jews? They don't believe in Allah either." So to head that off they went ahead and included the Christians and Jews because Islam teaches that ALL religion must submit before Islam or be destroyed.

 

Interesting. So given that the Quran and Islam teaches to fight and kill anyone who does not believe in Allah nor his messenger nor the Quran. Isn't that the definition of genocide?

And yet here you are defending a genocidal religion and saying they shouldn't receive the same treatment they wish upon others. And you have the AUDACITY to cry about others calling for wiping groups out while you defend a genocidal maniac and his religious nut bags?? Lol get serious bro

 

Muhamad was violently rejected by those in his homeland over his religious views. Don't forget the fact that portions of the Qur'an are about the ensuing wars against Muhamad.

And, the parts of the OT about God helping Joshua slaughtering Jericho were about ... what?

Once again you aren't asking Muslims how they view your quote.

You point out the importance of this when you state that Christians reject the OT, so statements and events in the OT, like Joshua's war on Jericho, may simply be disregarded. You are asking any who read the Bible to contact YOU to determine if the passage in question is true!!


Also, that may be YOUR interpretation, but the three main pillars of the Abrahamic faith, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, do not agree with you on the OT.