Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Having trouble interpreting what you read correctly I see.

It depends on what other figure you're comparing it to. For example if we say that there has been 117 billion people ever born on earth, then 2.3 billion people would be a few as compared to 117 billion people, matter of fact 2.3 billion people would only be 1.96% of 117 billion people then yes 2.3 billion people would be a few in this comparison.

I have no idea, only God knows the answer. He knows that only a few will find it and so the majority will not find it, how many people are we talking about?...who knows, only God knows.

He knows the grand total of people ever born on this earth and already knows what it will be in the future when future people will be born to live on this earth, after all He is the Creator Almighty God!

But again, when the end comes according to Almighty God only a few will be with Him in His Kingdom of Heaven. What that actual number will be no one knows only Almighty God knows.

We Read in Scripture:

The New Jerusalem

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.[a] 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.” Revelation 21:1-4 NLT

Footnotes
a. 21:3 Some manuscripts read God himself will be with them, their God.

Ok thanks Kode for your post.

 

Your quote from Revelations is actually from the OT and written for the Jews. After all Jesus was in the distant future. John simply borrowed many OT images and converted them to Christianity.

Study your Bible Mitt.

 

The Christian God is a Triune God or the Trinity, consisting of the Father, The Son (Jesus Christ), The Holy Spirit.

Jesus in the Son of God and is equal with God, this could be characterized as the first fundamental biblical truth of Christianity or the first of the Christian Core Beliefs.

We Read in Scripture:

Prologue: Christ, the Eternal Word

1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God. John 1:1 NLT

70 They all shouted, “So, are you claiming to be the Son of God?”
And he replied, “You say that I am.” Luke 22:70 NLT

11 And whenever those possessed by evil[a] spirits caught sight of him, the spirits would throw them to the ground in front of him shrieking, “You are the Son of God!” Mark 3:11 NLT

Footnotes
a. 3:11 Greek unclean; also in 3:30.

5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God,[a]
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave[c]
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,[d]
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
and gave him the name above all other names,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11 NLT

Footnotes
a. 2:6 Or Being in the form of God.
b. 2:7a Greek he emptied himself.
c. 2:7b Or the form of a slave.
d. 2:7c Some English translations put this phrase in verse 8.

Ok thanks gift for your post.

 

Mitt - why do you post this nonsense -- That Jesus is the adopted son of a God does not make him equal to that God .. Hercules was the son of Zeus - but he was not equal in power to Zeus. Where are you getting this nonsense from .. as the scripture you posted does not at all say what you claim it does .. another deception I fear .. my dear Brother Mitt. and you do not understand "The Logos" concept and mistranslation so leave it at that.

Who is this God that you claim is equal of Jesus ? How can you claim Jesus is equal to the Supreme one .. when you don't know who the supreme one is or anything about his powers ? Who is this God that you claim is Equal to Jesus .. is it that other Son of God Ha Satan ? What you are speaking is very confusing Brother Mitt .. I fear you have wondered down the path of darkness .. perhaps by mistake.

 

Your inability to deal with my statement in a way favorable to you has forced you to misrepresent, spin, and distort what I said. NOBODY was discussing "all people ever born on earth". Christians are 31% of those who live. That's not "few".

But although I've shown you don't understand the bible you quote, you think you have "found it".

Neither you nor anyone else has ever shown any inescapable tangible evidence that there's a god. Your own religion, like all others, refers to itself as a "faith", which means a belief system. Which means no evidence.

That's not what the verse(s) means.

And yet you haven't attempted to answer my question about the meaning of "morning star". The Revelation says "I am the bright and morning star" and it also says "he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, . . . I will give him the morning star."

Can you explain "overcometh"? Can you explain "keepeth"? Can you explain "end"? (you think it means "end of life" but it doesn't.) Then, can you explain "morning star"?

Can you explain the symbolism used in The Revelation when referring to the morning star and how it fits beautifully with "I am the bright and morning star"? No? Really? But you think you understand the bible???

 

YES! And yet "no". The Son is the Christ. ..... the Christ of Jesus! NOT JESUS.
You don't understand. I know that.

But the Trinity is a valid concept/principle. Yet I know you can't explain how the three are really one god. Go ahead. Give it a try.

 

Sorry Giftedone but you are also making an error. You are thinking of them as being two. You're thinking of Jesus and god when you should be thinking of Christ and god being one and the same. I asked Mitt if he could explain how the Trinity is one and not actually three. Maybe you could try to answer that too. But to Christians it (the truth) is "blasphemy". So they cannot understand it.

 

Then again, Jesus said that few would enter the straight and narrow, and many would not. So your aversion to the matter would place you among the many who would not, in fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy. Which begs the question, was the man who taught the gospel of repentance being maliciously deceptive, and his prophecy a trap to capture the naive in obligement to fear. Why would he suffer torture and death to finalize his peaceable message. Better yet, why would they crucify him. It seems that every generation is full of itself. It'd be hypocritical of me to suggest that you should be holy when I'm not. Only God is holy. As we seek perfection in all we do, then God must be a holy and perfect man. So how can we attain perfection if we push it away, like the stone the builders cast away to find another in the OT. Can we do it alone when we are already fallen from innocence to sin, marked for discarding. By our own choices we have failed the science of perfection and corrupted the sample. Isaiah said that "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

 

Right right right.

But how about 2nd Corinthians, 3:6 and Romans 2:29? You only see the "letter"!

How about Hebrews 5:13 - 14? Why do you still feed on milk?

How about 1st Corinthians 3:18? Do you consider all I've said to be foolishness?

And what's worse, you don't seem to want to talk about it and learn by feeding on "strong meat".

 

Lol...speaking about misrepresent, spin, and distort that's what you've done...haha! All I did was post a statistic done in 2020 regarding religions of the world where Christianity ranked as the number one religion as far as having the most followers that number being 2.3 billion people.

Now I never made the remark that this is a "few", neither did I say these current 2.3 billion practicing Christians will all be saved, I mean how would I know, I'm not Almighty God.

I then post what is written in Matthew 7:13-14 NLT which basically is Lord Jesus telling us about the Narrow Gate where one can enter God's Kingdom only through this narrow gate. He tells us, the highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way but the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult and only a few ever find it.

Then you come along to respond to my post and obviously the way you responded you clearly misinterpreted my entire post, essentially saying that I was saying 2.3 billion people are a "few"

I made no such statement that 2.3 billion people are a "few"

You got confused when I presented the two verses in Matthew 7:13-14.

So let's analyze what the Lord said in Matthew 7:13-14.

Basically what He is saying is that for all the people who have ever lived or will live in the future the majority of them will not enter God's Kingdom through the narrow gate. God being omniscient knows the grand total of people ever born on this earth and already knows what it will be in the future when future people will be born to live on this earth. So He already knows that the saved will be only a few as compared to what the unsaved will be and what those actual numbers will be only Almighty God knows what they will be.

Ok thanks Kode for your post and please try your best not to misinterpret reading my posts. Take your time reading and don't jump to false conclusions if you do you will no doubt misinterpret what you're reading. I would suggest taking a course to improve one's reading comprehension skills.

 

What's your point? I don't see a contradiction or even a connection between my post and the scriptures you posted.

 

But you class Jesus as divine. I see no reason to believe that. Matthew and Lukes nativity stories are designed to show this, but anyone who has actually studied these against the period, customs and OT will see that they just cobbled together and contradict themselves and laws and customs of the time.
Most of Jesus teaching is regarding the OT. This is natural as he was brought up from the age of 5 -13 by teachers - later called Rabbis - to believe and learn the Tanakh. Most of his parables relate to Israel's supposed relationship to Jahweh. He never preached to the Gentiles, nor did his disciples - at his own instruction.
He was a Jewish child probably born in Bethlehem in Zebulon - 5 miles from Nazareth - who grew up to become a teacher/Rabbi. His interpretation of the Tanakh contradicted the hypocritical Jewish religious heirarchy and they had him put to death. The gospels contain words that Jesus the Jew would never say and teachings likewise. Some of which would not have been accepted by the people. There was no such thing as a vicarious sacrifice. Jews were responsible for their own sins and sought repentance from those they had offended and from Jahweh during the Days of Awe and Yom Kippur.
As for Jesus being the Son of God, Jews took Yahweh as their god during the Babylonian exile. Yahweh was a son of the god El. Jesus was in this case the Grandson of El.

 

Any particular reason for adding an "s" at the end of Revelation?

 

No, I'm just repeating what Jesus said according to the scriptural record, in relationship to the conduct of mankind, in the light which his doctrines cast upon us. If as you say, the Jews didn't believe in vicarious sacrifice, then why did they spend thousands of years sacrificing unblemished animals on altars. If as you say, his doctrines were contrary to Judaism, then I'm perplexed as to why you also say the gospels of his doctrines were not true to the times and speech. By what benchmark do you conclude these things? At any rate, however it is parsed, even a casual review of the matter would indicate that the overriding concept in the matter is the principle of accountability. And that is not some wild eyed alien thing. It is common to man and life in every age.

 

Alright let's cut to the chase. You seem to believe you know the bible pretty well. It says "few there be that find it". So tell me how you believe a person can "find it". A reference to verses for supporting evidence would be nice.

I was not confused. But that's an interesting way of avoiding an answer to my question. So now how about an answer to my "cut to the chase"?

 

Really? Ok. Then let's go one step at a time...

You posted:

"Aversion"? You count my listing of your errors as "aversion"? You mean what you say is truth and my questioning of it, then, is "aversion"?

My experience with "believers" is exactly like that..... deny, dodge, accuse, condemn and always refuse to answer questions that are "risky".

All diversionary. You asked "what's your point?" You said you see no connection between your post and the verses I posted. I'm saying your interpretation of the bible is that of "the natural man" (1 Corin. 2:14). I'm saying your understanding is in "the letter" rather than in the spirit (2nd Corinthians, 3:6 and Romans 2:29). I'm saying you still feed on milk as you are not ready for "strong meat" (Hebrews 5:13 - 14). And you seem to believe what I say is foolishness because you could not receive it (1st Corinthians 3:1.

The connection is that I've described or characterized everything you have posted since we began this conversation. And in my post #3159 I provided the verses to explain what I was saying and show that it is biblical. And you speak of my so-called "confusion" while you fail to see the connection, asked about it, and even now probably are mystified and confused as to what the heck I mean.

 

No Kode .. No Error but yours .. the whole point is to think of them as being two separate beings .. because that is what is being depicted in the story ..rather than imposing your monotheistic perspective on to the story. and the question here is SOOO NOT what I or you think .. talking about perspective imposition negation >>>> This is about what the author thought .. what the first century reader takes from the story .. their Perspective .. what did they think the text means . and sorry to say .. blasphemy or not .. it is a ridiculous absurdity that our first century reader .. upon reading the original version of the story for the first time with limited external info about Jesus .. would believe that Jesus is being depicted as the Most High God - El Elyon ..

and now you have your answer for the trinity but to be more specific ... the number of separate will's determines the number of Gods So.. Jesus expressing a different will than this other entity .. tells us there are two .. "Take this Cup from my hand .. but let it be not my will but yours"

Jesus doesn't wanna do it .. different will .. different God .. and after he does comply .. thinking "God knows what he is doing .. I will play along a bit further" --- but things don't work out .. God does not swoop down like he does with Isaac and Abraham -- and Jesus is none too happy about it . "My God My God .. why have you forsaken me"

Now .. for real you want to tell me .. You have to think of Jesus and God as the same being here.. and I say .. that is wonky doodles .. no right thinking first century reader is going to take that away from the text .. This is some poor sob who gets forsaken by his God.. which .. to the reader .. would be nothing unusual --- happens all the time in the affairs of the Pantheon of Gods and their interactions with humans .. as far as this dude is concerned.

It is especially important to read the OT from a polytheistic perspective .. or at least a monolateral .. as they all believed in many Gods .. there were no monotheists among the Israelites ..

 

I don't know what you're talking about. My post was in response to Trevor's post. That said, there is nothing carnal in quoting Jesus Christ. Nor is there any mistaking his meaning that in him is life, and otherwise, no matter the rationale, is death. So to choose otherwise than Jesus Christ is to choose the wide gate to death, and fulfill his prophecy of the two ways or gates. It is self evident that everyone must believe one thing or another, either the truth or a lie. True life is in God, rather than in ourselves or our lives alone, which can only lead to the grave and regret. Trust me when I say that I know that God is real, that he lives and is divine.

 

"I and my Father are one."
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"
"There is one body, and one Spirit"
"One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Who is this "first century reader" who is "reading the original version of the story for the first time"???

But you're doing it again. In one instance it's Jesus-the-man, and in another it's Jesus-the-Christ. But you haven't yet come to grips with the principle of Christ-in-you speaking through a flesh-body that was named "Jesus" so that we could hear. And you don't understand the lesson being taught in your example of "take this cup from me, but your will be done, not mine". That was the MAN (Jesus) speaking. So yes, in that case there were two. But when the Christ spoke, it was the will of god speaking. And you're not making the necessary distinction.

The man prays to his god. But I have no idea what you mean by "different god".

So not only are you confusing Christ with Jesus, but now you're also telling us what Jesus was thinking!

Gifter, I would hope that you can see by your own writing "style" here that it is impossible to write clearly while refusing to capitalize, use standard punctuation, and proofread for clarity. I'm not sure what you're saying, but I think you may have not thought of the original writings that didn't make it into the "accepted" bible, or those that were found in our own time in the caves of Qumran including the Dead Sea Scrolls.

But like Mitt and so many others, you are clinging to the "letter" even though your bible warns against that.

 

It's how the words attributed to Christ are understood that is often carnal. The carnal mind "is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

And it's how it must be delivered in order to not offend the "natural man". 1st Corinthians 3:1-2 "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able."

HOW do you know god is real? Please be clear and specific.

 

If God inspired the authors of the Bible, why didn't he inspire them to add some humor? That book is so dry, so humorless, that it simply is no fun to read. Everyone else seems to know that humor is a great literary tool to draw readers in, to motivate folks to stay invested, but I can't recall a single joke, a single amusing story. I can't remember anything that even made me smile, let alone laugh. It seems like such a dumb idea to ignore humanity's sense of humor when writing for humanity. God theorietically gave us one.

 

The Book of Revelation is a book of supposed revelations. Take it which way you will.

 

Because he sent his spirit to me, to know me, and to awaken me to a remembrance of him. I recognized and remembered his spirit from eternity. He filled my heart with peace overflowing to the last molecule of my body, swept the table of my soul to the edges that I could see, and filled my mind with light and vision. He rescued me from a dark pit. And I came to know by his divinity that my true life was in him rather than in myself or my life alone as I had formerly lived. I am converted not to scriptures read or heard, but solely to the spirit of God. He has known me, so my heart is to him. How can one love and know God, if God had not first loved and known them. These are my own words. And they are true.
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

 

I experienced something very much like that. Every day for a month as I sat in prayer, I experienced "the anointing" followed by The Presence which is "God face-to-face". It felt like a bucket of warm honey was poured onto the top of my head and as it flowed down my face, the sides, the back, it swept all tension and all restlessness away leaving me in a deeper peace than I had ever known. Then with eyes closed I could feel the Presence so close it was almost touching me. I KNEW it was God. I could sense it. Tears of joy flowed. And I would sit there for about 15 minutes that way.

A few years later I found there had been an experiment that had been repeated which produced those same experiences in subjects. And interestingly the subjects who were not religious fully accepted the explanation that it was the result of a temporal lobe "seizure" that was induced by the electrical stimulation. But all those who were "believers" refused to believe it was inducted. They insisted what THEY experienced was God, face-to-face.

In my case it was the natural response of a brain under the specific and unusual stress of the prayer I was doing.

I'm glad you enjoyed yours even though you gave me no details.