Christianity and our Nation.

So then you are one that desires all references to God from government interactions? Atheism/Statism?

 

Yes, there is no reason to mention God in any government function or document.

 

So help me God.....

 

It doesn't matter if it doesn't fit with nature. It's a contrived idea that forgot to take reality into account.

 

Have you read the Declaration of Independence or George Washington's Thanksgiving Day Proclamation? God should be mentioned in every function, document and institution in our nation when it is appropriate. Our very freedom and equality is based on the concept of one God from whom we all spring and who is the source and guarantor of our rights. It was that divine heritage to which our founders appealed in justification of ending our relationship with Great Britain. They made that declaration to the whole world. "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor” What followed was the Revolutionary War in which our Forefathers and that generation achieved our independence. Then came the Constitution in which the spirit of the DOI is inherent in the granting of liberty and equal rights. Our founders were true to their words and intentions. May God bless them in eternity. Were it not for them, we wouldn't have a country or a table to set. But mostly the honor belongs to God.

 

Nope, our very freedom and equality is based on the idea that reason leads to that conclusion.
The Bible teaches slavery is OK, thus slavery was allowed.
The Bible teaches that women are 2nd class citizens thus women were 2nd class citizens
The Bible teaches that homosexuality is an "abomination" thus homosexuality was made illegal.

It is only through reason that we were able to determine that such Biblical teachings are morally repugnant. It took us over a hundred years (and in some cases 200 years) to realize that the Founding Fathers did not get it all right. Those determinations were made DESPITE claims of "divine truth" on these matters.

 

You are living in an alternate reality in your mind.

 

In Bible times, unless you were a ruling class you were either a slave or a bond slave. Neither one of those equates to the slavery we had in the U.S. We can discuss the difference if you would like. However, the Bible teaches a Master is no better than a slave. So come off the "talking point" trying to make the Bible as supporting a system of racial slavery.

No the Bible doesn't. "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave His life for it." You can't do any better than that. Your disdain for scripture has you doing cartwheels with the atheistic talking points.

Homosexuality is not the basis for family or human existence. It has no benefits for our culture whatsoever and is non productive. It is not what is best for mankind. It should not be illegal now, though it was in Old Testament times. God was trying to show his people the right way to live and laws were instituted to reflect that. The New Testament bears witness to the fact man cannot live according to laws but rather, a change of heart. Jesus made the Way. So Nwolfe, you are free to live in sin, yes, and even promote it. You will live with it's consequences.

 

God NEW that homosexuality is not a choice.

Also, what is "best" (by any standard) isn't that meaningful when it is applied to cases where choice is not possible.

For example, having two parents is great. But, when one dies, when a woman gets raped, etc., etc., what one might think is best is just not possible.

There is no justification for the idea that a same sex couple can't be outstanding parents. And, of course they may be Christians.

 

You live that dream and maintain that God made you gay. Reminds me of when Flip Wilson used to say....."the devil made me do it".

 

You don't know anything about me - demonstrated by your pathetic self serving guesses.

If God didn't make people gay, then who did?

Let's agree that God was not involved in any way in selecting the sexual preferences of individuals. As with many other species, same sex orientation is not rare nor is it chosen.

 

People aren't animals. And no one is born a promiscuous, sexually deviant adult. We are all born the same, from the union/marriage of a man and a woman. We are all born helpless, innocent, chaste and virgin. Furthermore, there is nothing gay about sexual deviancy. Nor is it an alternate lifestyle. City life and country life are alternate lifestyles. Neither is murder a profession on par with a life saving surgeon.

When the homosexual movement began, they said they weren't hurting anyone and just wanted to be left alone. Since that sheepish beginning, they've perverted the marriage covenant, ferreted out and targeted business people for financial ruin, boycotted advertisers, and are currently infecting public schools with their doctrines encouraging other peoples children into forbidden and deviant paths. So they aren't gay, they aren't an alternate lifestyle, they weren't born that way, and they aren't minding their own business.

The entire movement is deviant and built on lies. They should shudder at the truth. But they are shameless, proud and boastful, scheduling half naked parades down main street, waving their own flags no less, like a conquering army. They make adulterers and pornographers look like wayward choir boys. Like other pets of the left who are presented as victims of a mean society, the homosexual movement is actually an exceedingly corrupt victimizer of a polite society, a slap to the face of intellect, conscience, and virtue. Why any conscionable person would impishly give cover to/or aid and abet this dark glory is beyond me. I don't say this to hurt anyone's feelings. I say it because it's true, and I'm fed up with being lied to. The truth is important.

 

A handful of senators don't get to decide for the rest of us how we think this country was founded. Sorry to burst your bubble, but trying to satisfy some Muslims isn't a high priority to me and many other Americans. They make no bones about the founding principles about their country.

 

Who said anything about "racial slavery"? The Bible promotes slavery, period.
Exodus 21: 20-21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Being a Christian has no benefits to our culture whatsoever and is non productive. It is not what is best for mankind.

 

You can "think" anything you want about how the country was founded.
But facts are facts. It wasn't founded on the Christian religion.

 

I would say being a Christian has many benefits to our culture regardless of your misunderstanding of scripture. You apparently read no further than the scripture you prefer.

 

I don't know anything about you except the ideals you defend and even promote.

Did God make people addicted gamblers? Pedophiles? So God is responsible as to how people choose to behave? Is he responsible because he gave us choice?

So now we get to the crux of your thinking......Human beings are animals in your world. Their lives are no more valuable than other species. Perhaps we are no different that bears who often eat their young. Human beings, left to their own nature do terrible thing to their young as in late term abortions. Only difference is, they allow the children to be partially born but with the head remaining still in the vaginal cavity, a pair of scissors is stuck in the base of the skull which causes evidential pain to the unborn child. The scissors are spread, a vacuum asserted and the brains are suckeed out. Why do humans got to all the trouble? Why don't they just extract them and kill them like bears?

I'll tell you why..... because humans feel shame in sick behavior. That is until they harden their hearts and write God and His holiness out of the picture. It is exactly as the Apostle Paul wrote about in the first chapter of Romans. A person in his adolescence may have a propensity to experiment with same sex behavior. In fact, he/she may overcome the shame he/she initially feels and indulge regularly. Eventually he/she may even become a promoter of such behavior. That is what happens when those of you turn your hearts away from God, harden your hearts and do whatever is right in your own eyes. God knows our nature. He has a plan for us to overcome and return to the direction for which He has always intended for us. Everyone of us needs to look to the provision of Jesus Christ and what He did for us at Calvary. There is not "your truth" or "my truth". There is only one Truth. Read Romans. Read the Gospel of John. See if your heart is too hard to understand. Ask for divine help. You don't need someone to take you by the hand. God desires to reach you. There are others that can help you see, but it is up to you initially and God does work miracles.

 

That's true. It was founded on God. There's a difference between God and religion. That's why the first amendment secures our religious liberty to find and worship God, or not, according to the dictates of our own consciences, in our own way, time, and season. Our founders were very wise, even if their judgment was formed or constrained by peculiar circumstances. Still, they managed a miracle of sorts, not to mention defeating the most powerful nation on earth at the time.

 

That's a ridiculous interpretation of scripture. When Jesus said that if someone strikes your cheek, turn to him the other cheek. That isn't to endorse aggression or make oneself a doormat, but to bridle ones pride and quell contention which escalates into war. Much of scripture teaches how to deal with the world into which we are born. IOW, if you have a slave, deal justly with him.

 

Actually, the United States was founded on many things, and certain aspects of the Christian religion would be amongst them. As John Quincy Adams accurately stated:

The highest, the transcendent glory of the American Revolution was this — it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the precepts of Christianity.

The fact is, much of what defines Western Civilization today and differentiates it from other civilizations can be traced to the Christian religion, including Western Liberalism and Individualism. Many of our laws and rights doctrines are derived, in part, from Christian religion, philosophy, ethics and law.

This is not to say that America has ever been or should be a theocracy and that our country is founded solely on Christianity. The Founders were greatly influenced by Classical Greece and Rome and many of the ideas expressed during the Enlightenment (ex., Montesquieu), the Glorious Revolution (John Locke, Algernon Sydney and the "Radical Whigs") and the English Civil War (see my signature, Richard Overton, John Lilburne, William Walwyn, et al)). Our laws and legal system are largely descendants/extensions of English law and jurisprudence, and many of the rights affirmed in our Constitution were previously affirmed in the English Bill of Rights of 1689, the Petition of Right of 1628 and the Great Charter of Freedoms (Magna Carta Libertatum) of 1215.

I could go on, but that would be belaboring the point that America was founded on many different things from many different sources. To say it is based on one thing or source is a dubious venture at best, but if I was to go out on that limb I would say it was based on the long, incomplete and ongoing struggle for individual freedom that continues today and will probably continue forever.

 

DNA analysis, anthropology, etc., show that humans are an evolutionary development, as are other life forms. Evolution is a foundation of ALL biology, including medicine. We are definitely NOT "all born the same." With humans and other animals, sexuality is a spectrum.

The "movement" is about accepting that a percentage of humans are same sex oriented, or have other sexuality that isn't so binary as male/female.

The truth is that discrimination based skin color, sexual orientation, and other factors that humans can not change IS more than merely something that hurts feelings. It is far worse than that.

 

I promote accepting states of being that are not choices. Sexuality is NOT chosen.

Being a gambler, a pedophile, a murderer, etc., ARE choices.

Your idea that this deprecates the value of human life is totally absurd. It most certainly does not.

Your gross and disgusting view of late term abortion doesn't actually happen unless there are very serious medical issues involved. Women don't carry a fetus to birth and then just arbitrarily kill the fetus. Doctors won't do that, either.

Many Christian churches marry same sex couples and welcome them as members.

YOUR version is not the ONLY version, and you have no right to attempt to make life harder for these members of our society.

This is an example of why we need a separation of church and our government. Your views don't even cover Christianity, let alone other people's beliefs.

Plus, you forget the acceptance, love and support Jesus offered those who did not share HIS beliefs.


Read Mathews 25:31-end. Jesus gives us a duty to others. As shown in this passage as well as the allegory of Eden, we are NOT the judges. We are not to partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

Even if the US was founded as a Christian nation (which I don't believe is the case), it doesn't mean that it is best for the nation to stay Christian. There are many people in this country that are not Christian and it would be unfair to force them to live under Christian rules. This is why we have the First Amendment. Also, even among Christians, there are differences between the different denominations, so when you say we are a Christian country, what brand of Christian are you talking about? Baptist, Catholic, Mormon, Methodist? Also, how do you know you have the right religion? You were raised Christian and told that the Bible is proof God's existence, but how can you trust the Bible? Secular is the only way a country should be. Let people choose their own beliefs and make laws based on logic, and not on a book with questionable validity.

 

Nope our laws are based on enlightenment philosophy which directly contradicts the idea that they are based on religion. There is no "divine revelation" in our laws. Our laws are not based on edicts from any god. Our laws are the result of human intellect reasoning out right and wrong. It is why we change our laws. If our laws were based on the rules set out by a God, unless we got some kind new revelation from that God, they would never change. The laws in place in the late 18th century would still be in place today because, unless you have evidence contrary, we have NOT received any new revelations from any God, let alone the God of the Christian religion. The Bible we use today is the same Bible they used then. There have been no updates, no revisions, no changes.

But our laws HAVE changed. What was once legal is now illegal. What was once illegal is now legal.

That's because we applied human intellect to the problem and reasoned that we had made mistakes and we corrected them.

 

Wow, how does "since the slave is their property" go to "turn the other cheek"

You're going to have to show me how you connected those two dots