Complaining about wages?

Funny, I see the extremists on this board as well as some of the members of the republican party have no problem if a rich man complains hes only making $1m a year instead of $4m. This of course is a hypothetical figure but the point is correct. And the point is that the extremists find nothing wrong whatsoever if a rich man or business complains that "they are not making enough". After all thats "capitalism."

On the opposite end when an average worker making 3o 40 or 50k a year complains, he is simply "lazy", "communist", "socialist", and of course "greedy" for saying he does not make enough. Funny how this seems to work both ways for the right wing extremists, however anyone with a rational thought process doesn't buy into this ridiculous way of thinking.

 

It depends on the political side. The left will call the rich man greedy for wanting more, while the right will call the middle class worker lazy for wanting more without working more.

It really boils down to what you see as "fair," since "fair" is a subjective term.

 

The rich want more without working anything. They have the workers that do the money for them. I don't know what is worse.

The normal would be that I earn according what I produce, in other words, what I produce is mine, and not of the employer.

I am the producer, and if we are many producers, then we distribute the results of this between us in equal parts.

That would be the normal. It is not socialist mentally or whatever, it is just justice.

 

When someone complains they are not making enough money,then maybe they should change careers.Or maybe make some smart investments to make their money grow.
Right?

 

so are you also willing to pay the employer for what he provides, the materials necessary for that job and the environment in which to perform it? these are, after all, as necessary as the labor, if not more so. what of the risk involved, the monetary investment needed to provide materials, a workplace and often the machinery in an ever changing marketplace and the trust invested in the worker to utilize those materials to the fullest? the worker is not a producer, he is a material investment. his only investment is time and effort, something given freely to us all.

 

Don't waste your time. These morons have probably never even had a job, let alone tried running a business, unless you maybe count a fantasy football team.

 

LOL same old tired arguments. Because everyone can simply afford to invest large amounts of money into something. Because people can simply just change jobs at the drop of a hat. Use some common sense for once people.

 

but everyone can simply pick up and make a change. if you are willing to endure the hardships that change entails, you can at least try to reinvent yourself and become whatever you please. if you get together with enough like minded people and are willing to take the chance, you can start an employee owned company and live out kilgram's dream of actually owning what you produce. all it takes is the will. of course there's no guarantee of success, but that is the same risk that every company's owners have always taken.

the problem is and always has been that most folks simply won't take the risk. they'd rather resign themselves to the life of a wage slave than risk failure, then they complain about that boss who undervalues their work. their work is nothing. it's only another material expense for those who are willing to take on the risks.

 

How does a troll reinvent himself to be anything but a cave dweller?

 

So what does it say about you that you complain about how much people *earn*?

Only the government "makes" money and can do so in unlimited quantities and pass it out based on whatever a greedy politician of any political stripe wants, and I haven't seen you complain about that.

 

The rich DO NOT WORK. They take. They extract. They hide their income. Lastly, they're all going to Hell.

 

Sometimes this is true. Sometimes the reason for the complaint is the unfairness of the system. Its not a good idea to categorically accept or ignore a complaint without understanding it.

 

Some rich people have worked incredibly hard and taken very well calculated risks to grow their enterprises. Your viewpoint is beyond ridiculous.

 

Look. A big part of our revolution was against tyrannical taxation.

When a black man in the 20's worked for a white man, and the white man only gave him 50% of the profits from the cotton crop, it was sharecropping and it was basically slavery right?

So what makes you think that taking 50% of anyone's pay, no matter how rich, isn't slavery under the same ethic? Since when did the fact that tyrannical taxation is perfectly okay as long as it doesn't impact quality of life become part of the American Lexicon? Under your form of thinking, the colonists should've just ponied up the tea tax and not revolted against the British Crown because after all, it wasn't really a huge tax and it didn't really effect quality of life all that much and it even was going to help pay for the French and Indian War.

That's just tyrannical, authoritarian and exactly what men died fighting against at Lexington and Concord. You sir, are no better than a 1770's tory.. because now the US Government is the tyrant and you support the tyrant.

Tory..

I don't care if there are valid economic arguments for raising taxes on the rich. The fact still remains that in America, our culture has founding principles that you obviously have either forgotten, were never taught, or just don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about and a strong cultural dislike of taxation is probably one of the PRIMARY founding principles of this nation!

 

The worker is a producer. WIthout worker there isn't production.

For something the strikes always have been effective. Because the workers are the producers.

Material investment? LOL It is disgusting. That's the mentality that makes me to hate conservatism. Your lack of humanity. Your lack of comprehension of the humanity. You don't have any kind of humanity. Your god is money. Humanity is only a tool to make money. That is horrible. That is inhuman.

 

Maybe a few. But it is really hard for not saying impossible, we will say almost impossible, become rich without using dirty tricks.

 

HAHAHAHA

That dynamic only works when you have a limited labor supply. Thanks to globalization we simply don't need troublemaking and striking workers who demand more. We can fire them and replace them as easy as putting an ad in the paper and there are billions of starving skeletons who will kill to have a job, any job whatsoever no matter how menial.

The fact is, the global labor supply is practically unlimited and that pretty much (*)(*)(*)(*)s your little labor extortion plan all up doesn't it? Because there is an unlimited supply of scabs to replace the arrogant union worker.

As far as humanity goes.. "morals" and economics do not mix. You cannot place charity in the business place because that means the business will fail. Businesses are not charitable institutions, they are meant to make the maximum amount of money possible by any means necessary within the law.

Your morals simply don't matter.

 

No, it is quite possible to be rich without using dirty tricks. Sorry but we disagree fundamentally.

 

Well, We don't disagree. Truely I don't know any rich that hasn't exploited people, or other things. But I wanted to give them a small doubt about that. Very small.

 

You've left clear that. Perfect. We have all reason about capitalism. And the free marketers what they want is a new slavery of the worker. Perfect.

Well, then if you continue removing rights, maybe we go back to the XIX century, and the social peace won't exist anymore.

 

Of course we're returning to a 19th century labor dynamic. What did you think was going to happen with technological revolution? Utopia?

 

Montoya speaking as a man that worked all his life punching the clock in a paper mill , and having raised a Family , I can state that it always is a hope that wages & benefits will increase , but it rarely happened .. and I sure could have used the money ... heck , I could still use the money , how about you ?

It seems to me that the Republicans have overloaded the wagon with falsehoods and swiftboat rhetoric again , but I for one am not near as gullible as I used to be ..(not that I ever was , you understand )

and many people that have issues with Obama are starting to realize that Obama & the Dems are trying to get things straightened out , and doing it without any help from the 'Party of NO' and it'll be remembered in the 2012 potus election...

 

did someone say scabs ... a blight on humanity , an open cankerous sore on the bottom of working men & women ..

yep , I've met a few scabs ... they don't talk very loud when they have to back up that big talk.. never met a scab that I liked ... but they didn't last long ... scabs are cowards , my opinion ...

 

I think "scabs" are great. Unlike arrogant union thugs, they know what the true value of their labor is and do not initiate coercion against others via government proxy. And as a biology major, I don't find the term "scab" to be all that bad. A scab is just the body's way of healing a wound; in this case, it's a festering wound left by a union parasite. If it weren't for the formation of the scab, the wound would become infected and ultimately kill the organism, in this case, the business. So, naturally, the parasites and bacterium that feed on the host organism resent the healing powers of the scab.

 

To the OP, you (not surprisingly) characterized the argument all wrong. It goes more like this...

A "rich" man EARNS X amount of dollars only to have 30-50% of it confiscated by the government; consequently, they resent having their earned wealth taken from them. Conversely, that confiscated wealth is then given to "poor" people who did not EARN it; consequently, these "poor" folk resent not receiving more unearned wealth.

So, you see, one person is complaining because their EARNED wealth is being taken away from them while another person is complaining because they're not being given enough unearned wealth. One person is a productive capitalist while the other person is a socialist parasite. Once the latter takes over society, the societal super-organism dies a slow death.