America Needs To Rediscover The Spirit Of The Old South.

it was about protecting a disgusting institution that should've been destroyed at the founding of the nation.

Prove your point.

Of course that means the Southern Colonies at the time would've never agreed to ratify the Constitution.

Prove it.

To the neo-rebels who are actually silly enough to think the Constitution allows for Secession. That question was a valid one in 1860.. by 1865 that question had been decided by force of arms.

Prove the Constitution does not allow secession--- Exactly and that is our point.

Anyone who reads REAL history rather than neo-Confederate revisionist crap, fully well knows that the South acted like a bunch of for lack of better term, belligerent rednecks
Really??? I read real history and I know for a fact you are wrong, however I will give you the chance to prove your point. Remember I use a lot of (revisionist) documents of the period. Do you know what a redneck is???

I'm sorry Rebs.. but one cannot fight for the "Freedom" to deny freedom to another human being.

Hummmm that would mean only Southerners owned or imported slaves ??? Killed of the Indians???

Lee himself even said that he did not fight for slavery, but that he gladly gave all that he had. Lost his home, lost his fortune, lost everything he owned, and said that he would gladly trade it all again to make sure that slavery died as an institution in America. Longstreet said the same thing.

So who fought for slavery, I am sure someone did, just as someone thought he was fighting to free the slaves.

So to question whether the Civil War was right.. If Lee and Longstreet said the North acted exactly the way it should've and the outcome of the war was preferable to their victory.. that settles the issue in my mind and neo-confederate loons can simply well.. Go to hell. Because I promise you today that if we could channel Lee, Jackson and Lonstreet today, they would chastise today's neo-confederates and their supporters in the South and tell them The Cause was Lost at Appomattox and that it was the best outcome possible and they should support their nation fully

Post the exact quotes please. Show me where Lee says he is glad he lost. If I do go to hell you can rest assured I will be shaking hands with a bunch of Yankees.

Lee, Jackson and Longstreet would never approve of what you are doing today. They would be ashamed of you! [/B] and you INSULT the memory of those men when you talk of secession being valid. None of those great men supported secession! They abhored it, and only fought because their sense of duty wouldn't allow any other option for them. But they NEVER thought that the CSA should've done what it did and they can tell you that today by just reading their Post-War writings!!

You don't know what Lee and Jackson would do. Secession was settled by force you said so yourself. A lot of people didn't support secession; they hated the Yankee invasion worse!!!!!! You said that already. Prove what Lee was thinking.

George Purvis
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

Somewhere along the line I bet you actually felt smart writing this drivel.

The fact is that the South did not fight to preserve slavery. Slavery was a part of it, a big part of it for some states, but it goes way too far to say they were fighting to preserve slavery. Actually, a 'fight' is not what they wanted at all. The South always knew it was outgunned and out manned, but felt they were protected by their Constitutional rights in seceding.

To preserve slavery all the South had to do was remain in the Union. Kentucky, Delaware, Maryland and Missouri all had slaves and remained in the Union with slavery continuing there unmolested. The same is true for West Virginia as it was carved from Virginia. Also true for New Jersey, which had officially abolished slavery but in practice had slavery until ratification of the 13th Amendment. No one knows how long slavery would have remained in the US had it not been for Lincoln issuing the Emancipation Proclamation, which, although issued as a political tactic to keep England and France from supporting the South, had the effect of bringing the issue front and center.

As for those Confederates being ashamed of those of us that continue to defend the cause:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand.”
General Robert E. Lee, August 1870 to Governor Stockdale of Texas

“All that the South has ever desired was that the Union as established by our forefathers should be preserved and that the government as originally organized should be administered in purity and truth.”
Robert E. Lee

“We could have pursued no other course without dishonour; and as sad as the results have been, if it had all to be done over again, we should be compelled to act in precisely the same manner.”
Robert E. Lee

“All that the South has ever desired was that the Union as established by our forefathers should be preserved and that the government as originally organized should be administered in purity and truth.”
Robert E. Lee

“The contest is really for empire on the side of the North, and for independence on that of the South, and in this respect we recognize an exact analogy between the North and the Government of George III, and the South and the Thirteen Revolted Provinces. These opinions…are the general opinions of the English nation.”
London Times, November 7, 1861

“We feel that our cause is just and holy; we protest solemnly in the face of mankind that we desire peace at any sacrifice save that of honour and independence; we ask no conquest, no aggrandizement, no concession of any kind from the States with which we were lately confederated; all we ask is to be let alone; that those who never held power over us shall not now attempt our subjugation by arms.”
President Jefferson Davis, C.S.A. – 29 April 1861

“The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert it’s self, though it may be at another time and in another form.”
President Jefferson Davis, C.S.A.

“The Union government liberates the enemy’s slaves as it would the enemy’s cattle, simply to weaken them in the conflict. The principle is not that a human being cannot justly own another, but that he cannot own him unless he is loyal to the United States.”
London Spectator in reference to the Emancipation Proclamation

“The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states.”
Charles Dickens, 1862

“It is stated in books and papers that Southern children read and study that all the blood shedding and destruction of property of that conflict was because the South rebelled without cause against the best government the world ever saw; that although Southern soldiers were heroes in the field, skillfully massed and led, they and their leaders were rebels and traitors who fought to overthrow the Union, and to preserve human slavery, and that their defeat was necessary for free government and the welfare of the human family. As a Confederate soldier and as a citizen of Virginia, I deny the charge, and denounce it as a calumny. We were not rebels; we did not fight to perpetuate human slavery, but for our rights and privileges under a government established over us by our fathers and in defense of our homes.”
Colonel Richard Henry Lee, C.S.A.

“As for the South, it is enough to say that perhaps eighty per cent. of her armies were neither slave-holders, nor had the remotest interest in the institution. No other proof, however, is needed than the undeniable fact that at any period of the war from its beginning to near its close the South could have saved slavery by simply laying down its arms and returning to the Union.”
Major General John B. Gordon, from his book, Causes of the Civil War.

“They (the South) know that it is their import trade that draws from the peoples pockets sixty or seventy millions of dollars per annum, in the shape of duties, to be expended mainly in the North, and in the protection and encouragement of Northern interest. These are the reasons why these people do not wish the South to secede from the union”.
New Orleans Daily Crescent-1861

“The Southern Confederacy will not employ our ships or buy our goods. What is our shipping without it? Literally nothing… it is very clear that the South gains by this process and we lose. No…we must not let the South go”.
Union Democrat Manchester, New Hampshire. 19 February, 1861

"But what am I to do in the meantime with those men at Montgomery [meaning the Confederate constitutional convention]? Am I to let them go on... [a]nd open Charleston, etc., as ports of entry, with their ten-percent tariff. What, then, would become of my tariff?" ~ Lincoln to Colonel John B. Baldwin, deputized by the Virginian Commissioners to determine whether Lincoln would use force, April 4, 1861.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The above are 'just' quotes, but should give anyone pause to look a little deeper before going on and on with such rambling ignorance.

 

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 52, Part 1 (Supplements) Page 567

MAYOR'S OFFICE, Jackson, Miss., July 5, 1864.

COMMANDER OF THE U. S. FORCES ADVANCING ON JACKSON:

SIR: At the request of the citizens of this place I address you this communication. Three times already, during the progress of the war, this place has been subjected to the miseries and desolation incident to military occupation by a large army. A great deal of private property has been destroyed, a large part of the town has been burnt, and many of the citizens have been compelled to remove. In behalf of those that remain at home I bespeak that usage customary in civilized warfare, to wit, protection to women and security to private property. As most of the injuries heretofore sustained have occurred on the first avance of the troops into the place, I ask that you will send in a guard before your troops enter the city. By so doing you will relieve the anxiety of our citizens, particularly the women and children, upon whom the fortune of war has already borne so heavily.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

D. N. BARROWS,

Mayor.

 

Prove it? You mean this big fat thread I made specifically for this debate to call you out that you neo-rebs somehow overlooked?

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...et-would-ashamed-todays-neo-confederates.html

I'm not afraid of you people, I've been studying Civil War history all my life and I've got books, sources, websites and I can crush any argument you make, but of course I wouldn't expect any of it to make a difference to neo-sesh traitors.

Go read some real history, like Shelby Foote's Civil War:A Narrative which delves down into the deepest politics of the time and the thinking, or talk to the real experts over at HistoryNet.com.

Why would I insist that Secession is invalid? Because if the South can secede from the Union, what is to stop the (*)(*)(*)(*) Aztlan National Separatists from taking the Southwest away from us to? You want to let the Mexicans have half the country? or are you willing to admit that Secession is dumb because we are no longer 99% white with a smattering of black slaves but actually becoming a severe minority in some very important States in the Union!?

If Secession is a legal and valid recourse for States in the modern day, that means we have no right to keep Arizona, New Mexico, California or Texas in the union when the (*)(*)(*)(*) Hispanics take over in the next 20 years. You want to lose Texas to the Aztlans? Texas was key Confederate territory. You want to give up the historical claims to it and cede it to the Aztlan nationalists?

 

Thank you, Silicon, I agree completely with everything you said here.

Just to clarify, when I condemn the Confederacy, I'm only talking about the political leadership. The common soldiers, like the common soldiers of virtually every war, were simply fighting for their homes and their homeland. They deserve to be remembered with honor for their courage and sacrifice. They also deserve to have why they fought and suffered and died remembered. When you try to twist the real history to fit your politics, you are not only disrespecting the memory of all those brave men, but you are trying to make their struggle and sacrifice to have been in vain. We have an obligation to remember history as it was, not as we want it to be, and to learn from it.

 

It's more than that. The very survival of the nation would hang in the balance. They completely ignore the fact that there are a ton of hispanics in the Southwest who would just love to secede with California, NM, AZ and Texas and even make claims to Nevada. Do we want to just give away most of the West that Confederate and Union veterans went West to colonize for the newly rebuilt USA? Hell no.

Why would anyone want to see the USA split into 3 or 4 rump States? That's just outrageous thought that would destroy us as a world power(not that the shortsighted greedy regionalists on all sides care much about the world anyway, until they can't protect themselves militarily that is)

 

Start crsuhing. Bring it. Do your best. Jump when you feel froggy. Do you need an invitation? What's holding you back fear or common sense?

What a strange argument against secession. Are you sure you know what secession was all about??? Do I detect some racism in your argument??? Isn't it Yankee racism that helped bring on secession of the first 4 states????? Holy smokes!!!!! Looks like we win at the starting gate!!!!!!

George Purvis
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum.php

 

Thanks for looking up the official records. I don't think you need to post the entire summary, unless someone else wants to challenge it. What you've posted verifies what I posted earlier.

What's galling about this is that, even though Turchin was dismissed from the Army for these acts, Lincoln had him re-commissioned and even PROMOTED him. This seems to be about par for the course for Lincoln. He was intimately involved in the conduct of the war and ignorance on his part cannot be claimed by his supporters.

Lincoln did much the same after the Palmyra Massacre. He promoted Union General John McNeil, the one that had authorized the execution of ten prisoners of war in retribution for the disappearance of a Union spy.

 

All crimes lead back to Lincoln don't they?

Read about another massacure at Mariann, Flordia on the SHAPE website at ---From Confederate military history; a library of Confederate States history (1899) Vol. XI, Chap. VI, page 114 By Clement A. Evans.

http://southernheritageadvancementp...lugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2008647.post


George Purvis

PS what do you think of these two Yankees with all thier hate and racism??? Sorta typical isn't it???

GP

 

You've forgotten this:

 

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 38, Part 5 (The Atlanta Campaign) Page 141

Major-General, Commanding.

SHERMAN'S HEADQUARTERS,

July 14, 1864.

Brigadier General JOHN E. SMITH:



Everything in the nature of grain, forage, and vegetables should be collected. No suspicious citizens should be allowed near the railroad or in the country. The safety of this army must not be imperiled by citizens. If you entertain a bare suspicious against any facile send it to the North. Any loafer of suspicious person seen at any time should be imprisoned and sent off.

W. T. SHERMAN,

Major-General, Commanding.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Take what you want. Don't like the looks of someone send them North!!!!

George Purvis
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 38, Part 5 (The Atlanta Campaign) Page 97


CARTERSVILLE, July 9, 1864.

Colonel E. H. MURRAY:

General Sherman says that's very well. Take no prisoners if it can be avoided. When it is evident they are railroad destroyers, he will approve the severest measures. Part of our army is across the Chattahoochee.

W. W. LOWE,

Colonel, Commanding.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There you have it. I think this is called murder

George Purvis
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

have finished the hits from Roswell in the OR's, no more mention of the women. Will now move to locations looking for war crimes. If you can give me a direction for more reserach, rape, murder, burning etc etc. I'll do it.

George Purvis

 

This is a very good book for young Americans to read.







From the author - following General Lee's surrender at Appomattox,


" A leader must recognize that, in the end, there are worse things even than defeat. When facts dictate that one's business has failed, or that one's war is lost, and that no further effort could possibly achieve success, a leader knows it is far better to face facts squarely than to carry on a struggle that results only in needless effusions of red ink or red blood, of reputations or lives destroyed. Ultimately, a leader must count the costs of sacrifice not only to himself but to his people and act accordingly."