Socialism Abroad Still Threatens America

big difference between not being capitalist enough (for you) and being socialist. One of the main things the EU does is push through privatisation. The opposite of socialism. It also pushes welfare and pension 'reform' (cuts). Again a right wing policy on a capitalist basis.

 

All I know is that Social Democracy is the official name for the socioeconomic of Europe by their own people who decide that (*)(*)(*)(*).

Social Democracy is a fundamentally less free system than America's freewheeling capitalism.

Social Democracy, according to far left groups like socialists and communists is claimed as a sister ideology by those types, and is promoted as a workable "centrist" alternative to socialism.

To anyone on right, we are are fit and proper to lump Social Democracy/Socialism/Communism as highly related ideologies because we see the same common themes, and the same common flaws which is using the power of the social collective to reduce the freedom of those with wealth to sharecropper levels because some idiots out there actually think that merely having wealth, gives you life and death control over poorer people and therefore that power should be controlled through coercive and negative means.

 

So Silicon, it's your way or the highway?

 

I don't care what other nations do with their socioeconomic systems, if they want to ensurf themselves to an all powerful social collective then by all means, sheepify yourself.

But America has recovered of a sort from the massive failures of 2008 and are trying to get ahead, but we have this anchor holding us back called EU and the EU is in trouble because of an insignificant little society's profligate experiment in socialism.

Therefore.. Socialism is a direct threat to America even today.

 

I'm afraid you are incredibly confused about how economies work Silicon. You are also confused about "Threats".

Firstly,, whatever you may think, Europe, Australia, India, South America and large chunks of China operate a free market Capitalist system. We all do it because it is the most efficient system for producing the goods and services we need.

The keystone of that free market system is competition all the time, in all the market segments, because that is the only way products and services evolve and improve. If you think that there is no competition in Europe, Australia or anywhere else because we are "Socialist" then you are dead wrong.

The enemy of free market capitalism is not "socialism", it is rent seeking behaviour! Left to themselves, businesses will collude, set prices, create barriers to entry, get together with lawmakers to create regulations that advantage themselves at the expense of others, and do all sorts of other things to prevent competition and make money without having to compete in a fair fight for market share.

Here is a tiny little example of rent seeking behaviour; Louisiana Florists convinced its Government that florists in Louisiana need to be "licenced" and to get the licence they have to pass a "Test" lest the poor folk of Louisiana suffer from unsightly floral arrangements. This is simply a means of keeping out competitors so that high prices can be maintained. Do I need to explain why this is bad for the economy to you?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-10-florists_N.htm

The way we stop rent seeking behaviour and keep our markets free, is called regulation, and those regulations go at least as far back as Twelfth century England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engrossing_(law)

Of course this involves a paradox, we need good regulation to keep markets free, however regulations themselves can be perverted by the rent seekers themselves as the florists have done in Louisiana.

Of course when we decide to stop the rent seekers in their tracks, they scream "Big Government!", "Job Killing!" and all the other excuses under the sun. When we do cosy little deals like the Jones Act - which protects the American ship building industry at everyones expense, they shut up.

Now we get to the subject of Europe and America. Europe is largely administered by career civil servants and the regulations they create really do create free markets within Europe. Same in Australia. You want to compete? It's a level playing field.

This does not sit well with American corporations because they have perverted the American economy to the point where their main business strategy is to lobby the Government all the time - rent seeking behavior. And they have developed this into an art form that is toxic to free markets. Look at the attempted purchase of sprint ( or is it comcast?) by AT &T.


Now lets look at distribution of the fruits of this economy - and this is where you may find a little traction for your argument.

Europeans and other Liberals around the world believe that everybody deserves to get by, certainly not all equally, but that it is better to have folk who are relatively contented with their lot rather than have huge gaps between the lifestyles of the rich and poor. We do this through taxation and redistribution of wealth. Its a choice Europeans have made. It does not stop Europeans from becoming rich if the castles and super yachts I see on my visits are anything to go by.

America appears to have made a different choice - driven of course by the Rich, to cast the poor adrift.

Now the point of this is not about what is good or not, it's about how you deal with human nature. The Europeans know from experience that if you keep people poor uneducated, with no opportunities or prospect of a better life through work, then they get disaffected, they riot, they steal, they kill. France got a taste of that a few years ago and Britain got it this year.

So we spread the wealth around a little and take some from the rich (they take 46.5% of anything I make over $180,000). But the point of that is that I can either consent to that tax and not worry so much about crime, riots, etc or I can pay much less tax and invest instead in security services, guns and barbed wire to keep the poor from bothering me.

Guess which way costs less?

Of course what is the greatest fear of the rich and powerful and the corporations they own?

The answer is that if the average American finds out how good life is for the average European they will start demanding a little of the same.

So what does the corporate spin machine in America do? It labels Europe as "Socialist" and tries to tell you how bad life is for Europeans, and some of you believe it.

They tell lies like "Universal single payer health care is impossible". Of course when I tell you that Australians pay a 1.5% income tax levy for that very thing you will probably call me a liar.

 

I don't think a whole lot of people in the US buy guns, barbed wire or security services to "keep the poor out". In fact, our violent crime rates are lower than Europe and steadily decreasing.

Anyway, your point about how atrocious it is that there are poor people in our country that are suffering is actually fairly weak.

First of all, there is a poverty problem in our country. I cannot debate my way out of that, it is definitely there. Old rustbelt cities like Detroit, Gary, and Camden are dying.

Let me paint you a different picture of our country, however. As quoted by the ever-reliable source Wikipedia (shut up ):

Read the things in bold. There is that "horrible gap" between the rich and the poor, and it is due mostly to the decline of US industry. When menial tasks like "Toothpaste Cap Screwer" and "Paperclip Box Assembler" started being outsourced to China and robots, these people all of a sudden were out of a job.

Anyway, the middle class and the upper class continue to get richer. Industry in our country gets more hi-tech and complicated, and people need to get college degrees now (even if it's just a 2 year associate's degree) for factory jobs. People in business naturally get paid more as well, since that requires more technical skill as well. In the end, the "useful" (mean but true), more technically skilled class gets richer off of commercial and hi-tech industrial jobs, while the unskilled class gets phased out as our economy becomes one that requires smarts, not just strength.

To be honest, the people living these impoverished areas will have not brighter future ahead because our country is beyond the menial tasks that once gave them money. It is getting to the point where you need a high school diploma in some areas just to get a job as a fry cook.

It all comes down to the fact that our educational systems are failing, causing a whole army of idiots to emerge, needing a job that doesn't need them.

At least, that's my take on it. Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

Sources:
Poverty in the United States-Wikipedia

 

Agenda 21 is active here dude, right out of the UN.


Signed by Bush Sr.
Enforced by Clinton
Promoted more by Bush Jr
And still more by Obama.

They all work for the same team, against we the people.

UNITED NATIONS AGENDA 21 ACTIVE IN THE USA TODAY

Michael S. Coffman, Ph. D.

http://www.robodoon.com/global_un_agenda_21.htm

But actually is Fascism www.freedomadvocates.org.

People better wake up to the tricks, cuz they plan to kill our asses and enslave the ones left.

THIS IS THE WORLD, NOT A TV SHOW

I guess people should be asking themselves "Do I like death or chains better" cuz thats all that is being offered by the global elite who HATE GOD and mankind.

 

You do not need to tell me what it is. I wrote what it means to you and completely according to how you use the term!!!

Socialism by definition means a Soviet Republic, not a democracy.

A pure capitalism as a completely free market does not exist as well, neither in the US nor in Europe, nor in Japan nor in China or anywhere else in the world.

It is a lable you use for your propaganda. At the closest in the near past maybe Milton Friedman as an economist or Thatcher, Pinochet and other poiliticians following the theories of the Chicago school came at least closer to it, but this time is over as well.

 

Social Democracy is more of a political form than an economic one. Originally it meant Marxist and the Bolsheviks were in a Social Democratic party.

But later it came to mean the reformism of the Labour Party etc.

Nowadays, most supposedly social democratic parties have swung to the right, like New labour, and are not much different from the classic big business parties such as the Republicans and Tories. The Democrats are not really a social democratic party but they make pretences at it occasionally.

As I say, the EU is all about privatisation, it was set up by the capitalists. A section of the Tories were wary of it, but a large section of big business was in favour.

There was social democracy in Europe after WW2, partly because the masses were bordering on revolutionary and were getting landslide left wins in elections etc. You could say the capitalists made concessions in order to preserve their system. Now they are taking it all back. Social democracy is dead.

 

social democracy is very much alive as it is the scandinavian model.

t. bliar tried nu labour to sell itself as soc dem thru his third way notion.
but was just a disguised big business first capitalist tory.

1970's mixed economy concensus politics probably made the labour party soc dem, and probaby the tories at that as well.

michael foot and tony benn took the party further left socialist, hence the short lived breakaway SDP.

its true the EU was and is rigged for big business capitalists, which is why i cannot understand some people whom think the EU is a guardian of the welfare state / socialism / etc.
surely the current EU wide austerity decisions have put paid to that fallacy?

 

Not a bad post actually.

 

are you sure? What about how violent crime is defined? Is verbal assault violent? Murder is easy to define, how do they compare?

Hmm. a lot more research needed I reckon. Inequality has been growing and systems with high inequality will eventually fail as in 2008 to present. America's growing low paid mean the rich have smaller markets internally.

The economy has not just outsourced, it has shifted to finance, and the finance industry grew and got more complex until it was incomprehensible and unstable. Many of it's premises were lies. It was run by crooks (still is). These crooks control the government. They are in the government. The finance industry produces nothing real, it just sucks money from the masses into the pockets of a few, and that inevitably leads to economic collapse. An economy cant work with just a few rich people. 22% real unemployment in America, supposedly the most advanced country in the world, a country that lives off sucking in the savings of the Chinese.

America did have a lot of technology, partly due to high immigration before and after WW2, but now lots of countries have technology. America shifted to number crunching.

 

Well, SiliconMagician -- you are correct in a way.

You've finally come to the realization that the USA is not, and never will be, a peaceful island in a stormy ocean that's the world.

Because of social-democratic policies that ensure economic competiveness, e.g. (almost) free higher education, universal accesable healthcare, etc. -- the USA will need to install these programs to ensure their own economic competiveness.

Also -- the images of Obama at Linkedin went around the globe. It has caused an enormous backlash -- together with crappy comments by Geithner the last two weeks.

The EU will not what the USA did because it clearly didn't work.

Ig anything, the EU supports millions and millions of American jobs. We are your biggest source of foreign investments and your biggest trading partner.

Specifically, for your home state of Ohio:

Source: Ohio and EU

 

Exactly you made my point. When Greece collapses, taking down the PIGS and then France falls dragging littel Belgium with it and the Germans are left standing refusing to pick up the pieces. 100,000 people in Ohio could lose their jobs. Thanks for destroying my State's economy by endorsing failed socialist policies that caused your economy to collapse and dragging mine with it. Now I have even more reason to hate the EU. It's personal now.

 

What nonsense. A domestic financial crises was what sparked the issues in Europe. It's your fault, and my fault, and all of America's fault.

So much for the champion of rugged individualism and personal responsibility.

 

Individualism does not insulate one from the economic stupidities of an insignificant little commune on the other side of the globe when that commune was allowed to parasitize the global marketplace that it had no business being a member of in the first place if not for those desperate Eurocrats who needed every last bit of political power.

 

Yes you bastard. I'm struggling to get work and it's the fault of you Yanks with you big borrowing and allowing Wall Street to destabalise the economy in it's greed.

Do you interpret everything back to front or what?

 

Silicon:

I'm afraid you have been listening to too much Wall Street propaganda. They are running this "look at those stupid Europeans" line to take pressure off the continuing American financial catastrophe.

For the record Silicon, Europe can easily bail out Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. They have the money to do it. Greece has a tiny economy, it is only 1.8% of the Eurozone. It can vanish, implode and nothing will happen to Europe.

The argument in Europe is simple and painful: "Why should hard working Germans" bail out lazy Greeks???? They can do it if they want to, but will they? That is the argument.

I could make the same argument you are making because the American stock market affects the Australian market. The Dow is down 0.6% as I write this and the Australian market will take its cue from Wall Street and mirror the Dows close in a few hours.

I'd like to suggest that you start reading the analysis published here for a more comprehensive understanding about what is happening. These guys have been right since they started their newsletter in 2006.

Their view is that you are watching the slow motion train wreck of Western economies, and the biggest loser is going to be America.

http://www.leap2020.eu/Excerpts-and-public-announcements_r41.html

 

Oh what a load of self-serving dung!
When you're finished crying like Boner...why don't you take a testosterone pill and man-up to the fact that it was YOUR F'IN' DEREGULATED CAPITALISTS WHO STARTED THIS WORLD-WIDE FINANCIAL SLIDE!!!

Gawd what utter nonsense!

You Yankees deregulated your markets to the point of little to no oversight, allowing investors world-wide to engage in "shady" deals that they couldn't do in their own countries...'cause their governments WEREN'T INSANE!!!

And now that its hurting for a prolonged period everywhere...you wanna blame the Greeks??? The EU??? Socialists??? Marxists???

Friggin' hell little man...you feel the need to blame something or someone...at least blame those who created this mess...WALL STREET!!! The Great American Capitalist Society!!!

and then take 2 hormone pills and call me in the morning...lol

 

I'm glad to see we have convergent views when it comes to Wall Street.

And that you are as keen to dodge valid points as ever.

 

Not sure you're right about Greece being of no consequence. Greece is bankrupt and it's not alone, several other countries are too. certainly the IMF says it's worried about the whole Eurozone and world economy if Greece defaults. Greece is basically being used as a testing ground to see how much pain workers will put up with.

The debt is not caused by the poor, it is caused by the rich, and it started in America.

It is a crisis of capitalism, caused by inequality. The poor cannot act as markets, so rising inequality means shrinking demand which means excess capacity.

The capitalists response is to destroy capacity.

 

The capitalist response is for America to try and destroy the Eurozone financial system, leavingthe dollar once again pre eminent.

If America wins, you can expect hordes of commentators will come out of the woodwork spouting the same garbage about "socialism" as Silicon. What will follow is then renewed pressure on countries to do things "the American way, because European socialism has failed".

 

Silicon.

 

Don't forget to check tonight for REDS under your bed!

SOCIALISM!!! BOO!!!

Even Hayek said stuff like that was bull.

 

we're nearly as socialist as we are anything else.

I do every night.