“We reject the ideology of globalism and accept the doctrine of patriotism”

Discussion in 'United States' started by archives, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Like what?
     
  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Really?
    We are growing at a very fast clip. I don't see how you make such a claim.

    Maybe 25 yrs ago, when the R's pushed through NAFTA that Reagan and Bush I wanted to do, but didn't. And got Clinton to sign it. That hurt middle America, no doubt. But that was 25 yrs ago.
    We've recovered. If you hadn't noticed.
     
  3. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    No, they just get laughed of the stage by the entire world.
     
  4. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    What you call recovery was the slowest economic growth under obsma that America has ever known

    And part of the reason is the absence of factories to make the consumer goods that fuel a recovery
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  5. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    funny.gif The entire world wishes they were us.
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The $ comes from a small portion of the bloated, obscene and mostly wasted DoD budget. The perpetual war on terror would be majorly downsized.

    And I did not suggest healthcare for those entering the country--you did.

    Details can be worked out, if we can find a plurality of intelligent and honest members of Congress. That is a very big IF.....
     
  7. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Of course its an answer. Just one you don't like and one you cant formulate a rational response to.
     
  8. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Both the Iran deal and the Paris Accords were never submitted to Congress and instead approved Unilaterally by Obama because he knew congress would vote against it as not being in the best interest of the United states.
     
  9. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    How do you know that if it was never bought before Congress?

    So what would have been by now a fully nuclear Iran was in American interests? Or, refusing to work toward the effects of climate change on future Americans isn't in American interests?

    And you still haven't shown us what exactly "patriotism" is as a foreign policy
     
  10. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, you haven't shown us or offered proof as to when America acted contrary to its' interests
     
  11. Wild Horses

    Wild Horses Well-Known Member

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    I've never been in a welfare office. What is it like?
     
  12. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who did we alienate?

    Which of these "allies" do we no longer do business with again?

    lol
     
  13. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wowww im sorry ive been traveling and havnt had time to check in here.. wowww im not seldom floored but sweet mother mary and all the apostles would someone read this persons opinion? " American led world order " ?? This poster is leftist as their post history illustrates. Wtf does that even mean? The rest of the opinion is even more baffling! My opinion clearly states a timeline.

    Yes we needed to control world order by propping up the world via our checkbooks until Reagan ended the cold war. We as Americans have sunk trillions into world order...but times change. Other countries big and small are so accustomed to sucking off the US teet they cant exist without it. Trillions we have spent. What do we get in return? Nothing. Hell not even a thank you but hey we will bash you and criticize your country, give horrible trade deals and burn our flag, bash its POTUS and therein its people. This happened even under Obama so dont blame Trump.

    Fk the rest of the mismanaged and corrupt world until at least they can act right

    And your opinion didnt address at all that the laughing stopped real fast once our President said some checks would stop being written . Like snap! What a joke leftists are
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  14. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    It seems obvious that you're not going to get anyone to answer your question.

    What is nationalism? What is patriotic foreign policy? What is globalism? Judging by the responses here and elsewhere, people have not thought much about what the words actually mean, but are repeating some over-generalized, empty, and emotionalized concept. "Globalism baaad! Nationalism goood!"

    If we are to accept this concept of nationalism and its nationalistic foreign policy, I think we should understand what we are supporting. None of the responses here support an understanding.

    Can anyone define what nationalism is and explain how that applies to a foreign policy we might want?
    How about globalism? Why is that being used as an opposite to nationalism? Have we made up new definitions of these terms?

    And yes, I already know what those are, but want to understand how others are interpreting them. I'm sure there's some middle ground.
     
  15. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty funny, and a little history lesson for you, Reagan isn't responsible for ending the Cold War, that would be like saying Truman ended WWII, if anyone gets credit it is George Kennan

    And you have a Rush Limbaugh understanding of foreign aid, for example, why do you think we haven given Israel trillions of dollars, are they "sucking off the US?"
     
  16. 22catch

    22catch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First paragraph opinion is too boorish too even comment on but the 2nd yes ill respond and its a hell yes Israel is as guilty as the rest if not more so.

    My criticisms of the Palestinians and their blatant abuses of all of the money we give them ( used too heh ) are well documented. Their leadership has been garbage since Arafat. I believe a man who truly wanted peace. Israel is as bad or worse. Israel is completely unwilling to compromise on fkn anything because we enable them fiscally and militarily to shoot the peace process the finger.

    So yep ill stand behind my previous post , why doesnt your opinion address the fascist supporting comments if yours I was mainly questioning? " New World Order "?? That hasnt been applicable since Hitler. Yes out of neccesity we the U.S. took the lead and gave great trade concessions and aid after WW2 but Europe and the world act like they are entitled to those forever. Oh oh and crap on our country verbally on a daily basis while we the American taxpayers pay out the money?? I dont think so. Neither does our POTUS.
     
  17. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    So our multinational companies should pull in their horns and withdraw from all foreign markets letting go all the employees that were involved in international production and sales??And we should rely strictly on home grown food and clothing and all domestically produced merchandise???As we starve to death
     
  18. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Guess "boorish" is your way of admitting you can invalidate the point, not surprising, a lot of conservatives attempt to be witty to dismiss that which that can't refute

    So your saying our financial aid to Israel was a waste since it never furthered American interests in the area, you don't see that view expressed too often

    Statistically, based on national GDP, the US does not lead the world in foreign aid, the money we have allocated to other nations was to extend US interests, just as other nations efforts serve the same purpose. Today China has itself heavily invested in all areas of the world in particularly developing nations, now did you think China is doing it out of the kindness of their heart?

    And for "our POTUS," he is lost, he boast big trade deals, but the only deal he has cemented so far has been South Korea, and what was agreed upon doesn't differ a whole lot from the agreements that were in place. China is filling the void "our POTUS" is leaving, they have already established new understandings with the EU and Russia. Our traditional allies, the same nations Trump has managed to offend, have moved on, week after Trump's Vietnam summit embarrassment, they went ahead and formed the CPTPP without the US, which virtually made the US a second rate player in Asia

    Trump has sold you radio rhetoric in the form of his "patriotism" foreign policy but in reality it is nothing more than an unilateral policy outdated since the middle of the last Century. As I noted, lost
     
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  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Gym in Kansas? He was addressing The UN, Silly!

    This week’s most important news took place on Monday in New York when President Trump unveiled his “Trump Doctrine” at the UN General Assembly.

    This week’s important news took place on Monday when President Trump addressed the UN. It is the most significant foreign policy speech since Reagan said: “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”

    The “Trump Doctrine” declares: “America is governed by Americans. We reject the ideology of globalism, and we embrace the doctrine of patriotism.”

    This is a dramatic repudiation of both President Obama’s interventionism and President Bush’s “unipolar moment” marking a change of course of American foreign policy to Trump’s “principled realism.”

    Trump promised: “America will always choose independence and cooperation over global governance, control, and domination. I honor the right of every nation in this room to pursue its own customs, beliefs, and traditions. The United States will not tell you how to live or work or worship. We only ask that you honor our sovereignty in return.”

    He directly confronted three major threats: Iran’s nuclear capability, China’s economic might, and OPEC’s energy resources, arguing that competitive nationalism provided the surest path to defusing them.

    Trump declared independence from the UN Human Rights Council, the International Criminal Court, and the Global Compact on Migration, declaring: “We will never surrender America’s sovereignty to an unelected, unaccountable, global bureaucracy.”​
     
  20. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    How so?

    How is it cooperation when Trump demands that all other nations bow down to his demands? How is it sovereignty when other nations must do what we tell them to do?

    Competitive nationalism...seriously? How is it nationalism for the Chinese when they have their economics dictated by Trump? And does anyone really think that such demands will defuse anything?

    So, we have an international system in place to hold those who commit human atrocities and war crimes accountable, but Trump doesn't want to be held to the same standards by which we judge others? That's mighty Christian of you, Donald.

    This patriotic nationalism he talks about sounds a whole lot like a global tyranny.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    If they want access to our markets and our blood and treasure to defend their nations, there are conditions. If they don't want those things they are free to do without them. You have a very strange concept of "cooperation" and "sovereignty" that apparently means we have to give everyone whatever the hell they want, on THEIR terms.
     
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  22. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    "Doing what's better for our nation first, before we address other nations problems."
     
  23. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you on this - though it's always been the power elite's best interests, never those of the US - but you'll never get anywhere with it here. :(

    As China rises to take our place as the #1 global superpower, the elite sociopaths who control our government want to continue plundering, terrorizing and destroying other key strategic regions/nations to block China's rise - and of course enrich themselves and their depraved cronies at the expense of humanity.

    Obama tepidly opposed this as much as he could (neocon that he is, & yielding on Libya and Syria to disastrous humanitarian results), but Trump appears somewhat more aggressive.

    While nowhere near as monstrous as Bush (the most horrendous US war criminal since the one-two punch of sociopaths LBJ & Nixon), his horrific support of sanctions and other acts of terror aimed at Iran in particular are straight up crimes against humanity.

    But as I say, these truths are not going to get any traction here - it's "US, US uber alles!" all up in this joint.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump is just another clown puppet of the Establishment. Clowns are supposed to elicit laughter are they not ?
     
  25. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Naturally liberals - aka the America-last crowd - would never let the best interests of America influence their foreign policy decisions
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018

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