2022 general elections in Italy

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Lindis, Sep 24, 2022.

  1. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to believe me, and I don't have to convince you of anything. It's happening whether you like it or not.
     
  2. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Well "Right Wing" in Italian politics is still well to the Left of Mitt Romney.
     
  3. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    A common empty reply.
    Nothing new is happening
     
  4. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    What will it mean for the EU?
     
  5. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Nothing much unless the government starts to break EU rules.
     
  6. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    The bullies of Brussels will fight back. Italian voters were warned by European Commission Chief Ursula von der Leyen that "We have tools" to punish them if they vote the wrong way. OK, Ursala, the ball's in your court.


    https://rmx.news/poland/the-eus-lef...-out-of-fear-of-losing-power-says-polish-mep/
    The EU establishment will react ‘brutally’ after Italian election out of fear of losing power, says Polish MEP

    Prof. Ryszard Legutko, a senior MEP for the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party, says that any new right-wing government shores up the already existing ones but also exposes them to attacks from the left

    While conservatives may be celebrating, the election victory of Giorgia Meloni and the recent victory of Swedish conservatives have produced a hysterical reaction from the European Union’s establishment, and they may react with brutality to stamp out any future threat to their power, said MEP Ryszard Legutko during an interview with Polish media outlet Niezależna.pl.

    “We must be prepared for attacks on us to intensify. We can see how the other side is already in hysterics and that this could lead to some brutal reactions by them,” warned the Polish MEP.

    The MEP, who also serves as a professor, says that although Meloni’s victory in Italy cannot change the current balance of forces in the European Parliament, it will lead to more aggressive behavior from the European establishment, which will attempt to stop any change in the balance of political forces after the next European elections. He believes that the Meloni victory gives his grouping, the European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR), a chance to strengthen in the next European Parliament. Meloni’s party, Brothers of Italy (FdI), belongs to the ECR grouping in the European Parliament.
     
  7. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Please dont quote me a Polish source.
    Poland has had its own issues with the EU.
    The EU is TRADE alliance, not a country. It has 9 political parties which flow in and out of each other when voting.
    They don't vote in the three presidents based on the party they belong to. Each of the three are voted for in and by different means .
    No member of the commission including the president can vote on proposed legislation and every piece is voted on by three bodies...the parliament, the council and each member parliament.0
    Any time you want to discuss the EU, I would be delighted to do so. Be warned, I taught this to students in their last year of school and have made a close study of it since.
     
  8. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Wow, how pejorative of you. Or was that your only point?
     
  9. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    LOL.. No Italy doesn't "tilt to the right"... Italy is one of the nations who dabbled in communism to discover just how stupidly corrosive and destructive it really is. Why do the elite in Europe always try to keep the people down? Why must the people, in Italy in this instance, always bow to the NeoLib gentry? From what I've seen, the EU's only goal is to entirely take the power from their own people.
     
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  10. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Statesmen from Poland and Hungary are precisely the people I intend to quote. They know from direct experience what it's like to live under tyrannical government.
     
  11. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    A government that plays a large part in supporting their economy and an organisation they will never leave.
    Though I wouldn't mind seeing the back of Hungary. If they aren't careful they will be booted out.
     
  12. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    I very much support Hungary, and recently spent of couple of very pleasant weeks there.
     
  13. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    How on earth can you say that when every member has exactly the same power through voting for legislation and when over half that legislation is either not obligatory or can be initiated in the way they want?
    Italy doesn't have to bow to any ideology. Obviously. They can vote in whom they want.
    They only have to follow EU rules to enjoy the benefits if the wealthiest trade alliance in the world?
    If Italy wanted to leave, they could.
    They don't. So I suggest it is not for anyone else to speak for them.
     
  14. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Good. Much of it is due to EU support and access to a market that internally is half a billion people. Plus dozens of free trade deals across the world , with its own space programme and satellite commnications system, some of the most advanced technology and research available all pooled while allowing members to run their own countries as long as it is a democracy. Read the Treaty of Rome for terms of membership.
     
  15. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Economics and trade are only a part of what makes a peoples' identity, and buying them off with benefits only goes so far in trying to force them into submission.. Far more important, in my view, is protection of their culture and identity. which is precisely what the EU is trying to destroy. The successful conservative leaders in countries such as Poland, Hungary, and Italy are making that very, very clear. Meloni most recently exemplified that by saying Italians are not going to give up their culture in order to become "consumer slaves" for the arrogant elites in Belgium.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  16. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    OK.
    They can give up the large regional cultural grants the EU gives them, plus the financial support for new concert halls theatres, cultural events young people's travel to take part in each others culture like exchanges through the Erasmus scheme.
    No problem
    Over the 70 years of the EU, no country has "given up their culture". The Italian culture is still the Italian culture.
    What an odd idea.
     
  17. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Odd idea? I don't think that's for you to say.

    Britain has already removed itself from the EU and I think Greece should withdraw from the EU.as well. Greece will never recover from it's economic strangulation until it has control of it's own currency.
     
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  18. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Britain is openly regretting what it did.
    If Greece used the drachma it would immediately be bankrupt.
    It has debts in euros that are worth something. It would take far too many drachma to even pay off the interest.

    Look. You arguments date back to pré Brexit and have been put to bed. You have no capacity to speak for other nations, especially as your knowledge of how it works it poor at best.
    And the union is particularly strong right now. They understand voluntary cooperation and as adults, put the USA to shame with its deliberate aggression within itself. If the EU can operate quietly among 27 countries, surely 1 country can find a unified voice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  19. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Britain is regretting BREXIT? You mean the same clueless leaders and media who predicted it would fail in a landslide?

    Nothing has been put to bed, you're living in a fantasy. The world is changing before your eyes.
     
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  20. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Oh stop being patronising
    No. Many of those who voted for Brexit have seen no improvement in what was promised.
    Health care is getting worse as staff have gone "home" and the government is now having to beg staff back or from other countries. Ditto farm workers, nurses and GP's.
    The innovation promised has not happened.
    International investment has not recovered from its initial plummet and the pound never recovered. The clearing that used to be fone in London has been now done in Europe since passporting has been stopped. Much of the tax income that came from London has not been replaced.
    Immigration has grown alarmingly and the UK can't send them back to the EU as it could do pré Brexit using the Dublin Agreement.
    After 6 years, nothing has improved. In fact the UK economy is tanking because growth had all but stopped and the Tory idiotic latest version has thrown it to the sharks.
    You hear it all the time in the media...People are beginning to say they regret their vote. Others are saying Brexit has been a problem in recovery post covid.
    The landslide happened last Friday as the government recognised the loss of growth due to Brexit.
    Thank god I left before it all unravelled. It was all-year if you cared to look honestly.
    Speaking of change, a huge amount has changed since your arguments were relevant.
    Best to keep up.
     
  21. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    We're going to disagree on this, so I won't comment again on this specific OP. But we'll all be watching what the future brings for the arrogant state administrative elites both here in the U.S and in the EU. Personally I'll be praying for a dissolution of the EU. Nothing is so dangerous to mankind as giant super states. They will adapt or they will be destroyed as surely as was the Soviet Union.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  22. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Since the EU is not a superstate but is a trading alliance which works on democratic principles of human rights and a clear inclusive Constitution describing process and balance of powers, entered into voluntarily and can be left at will, it is very far from a superstate.
    It might be useful to know that every member is always a sovereign state which VOLUNTEERS some power in specific areas to an elected coopérative.
    And a very large part of members' powers are not open to EU control.
    The EU cannot meddle in
    national election or elective process
    education policy
    health policy
    Judicial policy
    Social services
    Income tax
    Corporation tax
    State investment and spending/the budget
    Religious recognition except for discrimination
    Local politics and investment
    The police and their practices
    Crime and punishment

    Now how can a body be a superstate if it has no authority over those and other areas?
    It may also be useful to know how it really works, not how someone told you it works.
    Leaving it has resulted in the UK being the slowest growing economy in Europe except for Russia.
    And there is no safety net.
    Not to mention the mess about northern Ireland and the hugely increased paperwork and phytosanitary controls.
    As I always said you voted for it...now live with it.
     
  23. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Oh. I forgot the important one. The EU has no control over a member's military.
    Hardly a superstate.
     
  24. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    This is indeed the uneducated's only understanding of fascism.
    More critically it is the only difference they can find between it and the rest of the socialist political movements that they aspire to.
     
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  25. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    So you think the American establishment is uneducated and that they aspire to socialism of various forms.
    Perhaps you might like to apologise to the American establishment who use this forum.
     

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