After mocking Trump for promoting hydroxychloroquine, journalists acknowledge it might treat coronav

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Gatewood, Apr 2, 2020.

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  1. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because it was touted over all the others by medical staff...
     
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    soooooo

    Of the two of us which one has been posting peer reviewed research and which one making unsupported statements backed by......., well mostly nothing
     
  3. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one has scoffed at any research or potential remedy except the left. Those of us opposing you are all for supporting research but we also support taking low-risk, high-probability, steps that can be taken now while the research continues.

    I'm about saving lives now, when it's needed, rather than months from now, when it's all over. I accept even that much research will fail; it's part of research. So, let all that research run its course. In the meantime, stay out of the way of the practicing medical doctors and their patients.
     
  4. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Neither. Well, WillReadmore made statements backed by nothing... and so have you. But no one is posting peer reviewed research.
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No it wasn’t

    There was ONE published paper which even a first year nursing student would note was of very poor quality

    It was trialled though in Wuhan because it has a known in vitro effect

    It also has a long history of having no measurable in vivo effect

    In other words it works in the lab but doesn’t in either animals or humans

    That does not mean we will not try it. WHO aid doing a world wide research called SOLIDARITY. on FOUR not just one promising treatments

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...al-four-most-promising-coronavirus-treatments

    It is called “not putting all your eggs in one basket”

    Think for a minute

    Would the SMART thing for America to do would be to maybe join the international community in trialling these four drugs?

    Instead what has happened is that ONE and only ONE drug has been pushed by the American President, he has bought up millions of doses on this ONE drug, creating an unnecessary shortage for those people who need it for existing conditions like malaria and then he has threatened to pull funding from the one organisation actually researching alternatives
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry???

    I have posted at LEAST half a dozen in this thread alone

    I have google scholar permanently open
     
  7. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    What did I scoff at?

    I introduced the term shotgun therapy to this thread. It was in a humorous exchange with @Bowerbird. I don’t know why that upsets you. I’m well aware of what it is. That’s why I mentioned it...often it’s the only way to approach treatment of animals when they are obviously unable to communicate symptoms and there isn’t time to do lab work, etc. Not only do I understand what it is, I use the concept in practical application.
     
  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, every day we learn more. We are even learning we made some big mistakes by assuming too much.
     
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  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I posted a link to the research being undertaken at Queensland University

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200409093921.htm

    Too early for peer review yet
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    OMG - I mistook you for Levant.

    Deeply sorry as your context was certainly different.

    I'll do better. I hope.
     
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  11. JBG

    JBG Well-Known Member

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    All these Democrats are risking handing Trump the election if the drugs are largely effective.
     
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  12. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thousands of real doctors who use hydroxychloroquine disagree with you that it has no measurable effect in animals or humans. You're wrong. I believe you know you're wrong.

    How awful is that, that a person can't get medicine for their arthritis because a dying person needed it to save their life.
     
  13. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The drugs are largely effective. Who knows what the lab tests will tell but the real world has already proven it. There are far too many anecdotal stories for the overall picture to still be considered anecdotal.

    One article I read, written by a doctor, said that they're seeing improvements in nearly all patients given hydroxychloroquine, far more than in those without it. The article said that, in general, even seeing numbers in the tens per thousand are enough to consider a remedy more than just anecdotally significant. Hydroxychloroquine results are in the many hundreds per thousand.

    You're right, though. That Democrats are banning or calling for the banning of hydroxychloroquine when so many will hear the stories of lives saved will, in the end, ensure Trump's reelection and Cuomo's failure in 2024.

    The left's best option is to let this one drop and find another conspiracy to attack Trump. So far, everything they've thrown his way has harmed them more than him; this is no different. Most likely, the next one will be the same.
     
  14. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good. You admit that you're not offering peered review research.

    By the way, you must not have read the article, once again, that you posted. The research was not undertaken at Queensland University; it is Chinese research that the Chinese Communist Party involved their minion nations in order to give cover that their report is international in nature.

     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Some links are some aren’t

    What it has proven is that you are not clicking on the links I have provided

    And as for the Chinese connection - talk about “world view bias”

    Now I suggest you read my signature
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
  16. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, you're not clicking the links you provide; you read the headlines or the first paragraph. I've simply proven you are wrong at every turn. Not surprising at all if you choose to hide behind the ignore button but I'm glad you are - but you're not really going to. That means I only have to prove you wrong once for each post. As it is, you keep coming back for more and it gets tiring.
     
  17. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Most on this forum are in the USA. So this big bad virus is the tRUMP virus. If that doesn't fit, let's to with the conservative virus.
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And if they prove ineffective or worse harmful?
     
  19. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Yes, which is why they are trying to make people afraid to use them. This will result in people dying who would not otherwise have died from the coronavirus but from the Dem Party's leadership perspective you cannot make a 2020 presidential omelet without sacrificing many citizen eggs. Or am I being overly cynical to think that the Dem Party's leadership would do such a thing just for a political advantage?
     
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  20. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's exactly what they're doing. There are thousands of success cases, not a handful, not a few dozen. It is far beyond anecdotal. It's as if we were to say the earth is flat because there are no peer reviewed papers showing it is round - Columbus trip to America doesn't matter, nor do the photos from space; those are just anecdotal.
     
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  21. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's not going to happen so there is no "what if". It's a done, proven, thing. They help..
     
  22. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Prescribing HCQ to treat a respiratory system affecting virus is not out of scope of what this drug has been prescribed for during the past sixty years. At worst, the drug will do nothing.

    What if this drug, in combination with other drugs helps 30% of the people it's prescribed for to beat this virus, would that be a bad thing?

    As it is today in NYC, 80% of the COVID-19 patients, doctors are putting on ventilators, are dying. Should we stop putting COVID-19 patients on ventilators???
     
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  23. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The drug has been around for sixty years, doctors are well aware of the very rare side affects.

    Let's stop using aspirin, cuz it's such a threat to your health.

    Aspirin Side Effects

    • Abdominal or stomach pain, cramping, or burning
    • confusion
    • convulsions, severe or continuing
    • irregular heartbeat
    • seizures
    • fainting
    • vomiting of blood
    • loss of consciousness
    • lower back or side pain
    • muscle cramping and weakness
    • muscle tremors
    • nausea or vomiting
     
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  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Hey - I hope it works, too. The problem here isn't that it might work, and it isn't that doctors shouldn't be trying what medical science advises.

    The problem is Trump picking one treatment and promoting it as the USA having solved the problem at a time when there was hardly even any anecdotal evidence, let alone science.

    Trump should be working to aid the states. Instead, FEMA is COMPETING with states.

    Trump should be promoting following policy such as face masks, social distancing, limiting travel to what's necessary, etc. rather than suggesting it's all going to be over in a couple weeks - which is absolutlely false, and leads toward people ignoring social separation, which is our only real tool against spread.

    Trump should be working to provide the US with PPE, so that we don't keep losing doctors and nurses who are risking their LIVES.

    Trump should be working to augment testing, as that is something that has been long promised and still has extremely limited availability. Also, it's going to be seriously important at the time we start trying to move toward normality.

    Now Trump wants to cut the wages of farmworkers!!!

    Those workers are CRITICAL, they risk working. They have super low incomes already.

    He got $2 trillion to pass around to the major players he likes and then wants to CUT the wages of those struggling to help us???

    In TN, they are cutting off power to those who can't pay!!!

    Sorry - this administration halted our preparation for such an event, failed from the start of when it attacked and continues to be not much more than a roadblock ever since.
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    First, those going on vents are in serously desperate circumstance.

    Hospitals ARE moderating how and when they use various types of breathing assistance, inluding ventilators as they try to figure out best practices.

    Trump has ZERO involvement in that - as it should be. It's another case where the president has no justification for promoting one solution over others.
     
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