Aksyonov accuses the USA of organizing water blockade of Crimea.

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by zoom_copter66, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Tofiks

    Tofiks Banned

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  2. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The people of Krim want to be part of Russia. It is called Democracy. Give Lviv back to Poland.
     
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  3. Tofiks

    Tofiks Banned

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    But why then before "people wanted it" Russian army occupied Crimeria? On what legal basis Russia occupied Crimeria and organized "referendum" there?
    I can't give nothing to Poland, I'm not a citizen of Ukraina
     
  4. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia has right keep Krim, and Ukraina must to return Lviv to Poland. U.S.A. making proxy war in Ukraina to Russia. Is fault U.S.A. Problem no with Ukraina people.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  5. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    C0F78DB5-FC0E-479A-B7CE-D143EAEF013C.jpeg
    This thread turns into a giant Russian troll fest.
     
  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Propaganda Alert!

    Russia should stop bullying its neighbors.
     
  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Russia is disgusting.
     
  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Propaganda Alert!
     
  9. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. This is why Ukraine is desintegrating. The idea of Ukraine for ukrainians is able to keep only those lands which were under ukrainians. And this wouldn't include west, south and east of former Ukrainian socialist republic... Of course ukrainians have all the rights to fight for their freedom, speak the language they need and to aim at becoming an EU and NATO member. But they have to put up with the rights of others to rejoin Russia, Poland, Slovakia, Belarus etc. It's imminent because of Maidan results.
     
  10. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What propaganda? I don't know if you realise this but Russia didn't have a year round port before Crimea. That's a pretty subatantial disadvantage for any nation claiming to be a world power.

    I'd advise you to not assume the worst in people. The notion that I am a Russian propagandist is frankly ridiculous.

    As proof, sissy man Putin is welcome to come over here and suck my balls.
     
  11. SovietChild

    SovietChild Active Member

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    "Use what language you will you can never say anything but what you are"

    You have an avatar of an animal that digs into ground and eats human flesh. Why are you calling Russia disgusting?
     
  12. SovietChild

    SovietChild Active Member

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    You are polluting the forum with your little to say comments.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You would be better off trying to talk sense to the wall. At least the wall will not respond with mindless gibberish.
     
  14. Tofiks

    Tofiks Banned

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    First of all, there was no such an idea as "Ukraine for Ukrainians" on a state level. Second thing - Ukraine is not disintegrating but in time of its weakness, Russia, who itself guaranteed borders of Ukraina, attacked and occupied parts of Ukraina territories. And third - you did not have any right to tell, what Ukraine state should do with Ukraine territories.
     
  15. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    1. The law about ukrainian language, current ideology and choice of state heroes like Bandera is exactly this idea. Nationalism of Ukraine is an official ideology of Ukcraine state.
    2. This ideology is tearing Ukraine apart. People of Crimea and Donbass were extremely against of Bandera and ukrainian language which they never talked. So it is not a period of weakness. Ukraine needs either to perform ideological cleansing (which is hardly possible because of a huge loss of people and even theoretical inability to replenish it. So don't try to decieve yourself. It's not weakness it is a process of disintegration. You should have looked at ability of Maidan leaders to work together. Yuschenko and Timoshenko showed quite vividly that every political movement staying on ukrainian nationalism will be corrupt and will disintegrate itself and everything around. This idea is not able to win competition it can only survive if it kills, and it is too weak to kill everyone.
    3. I have a right to tell everything I think. However I doin't support disintegration of Ukraine as a general concept and don't want the people to separate from the country. IMO it happens anyway.
     
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Vladivostok can be kept open with icebreakers and then there is Kaliningrad. Russia's needs, real or imagined, don't excuse aggression.
    You can repeat propaganda without being a propagandist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between an avatar and a country waging aggression against its neighbors.
     
  18. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The BS posted by the Russian apologists deserves identification as propaganda.
     
  19. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes I would have thought a country that claims itself to be some sort of world power would want to not have to use icebreakers to reach the ocean. Especially in light of sanctions.

    I never said it was an excuse. Do not engage in strawman logical fallacies, you are better than that.

    Nor am I repeating propaganda. This is full OG Steady Pie baby! Maybe myself and the head of RT think alike, I dunno.
     
  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Besides, Vladivostok is far removed from Russian production centers.

    This is what I identified as propaganda:
    Russia annexed Crimea because it wanted what belonged to someone else and it could get away with it. There was no great need to have Sevastopol to evade U.S. sanctions that were enacted as a response to Russia's aggression in Georgia. Instead of attacking the Ukraine, it could have given up its ill-gotten gain in Georgia.
     
  21. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is my view of the situation, I do not expect you to agree with it, but I do expect you to respect it as I do yours.

    The Russians are an odd, strangely proud people for a nation that's far behind much of Europe. They aren't likely to bitch out against sanctions, they will likely go down with the sinking ship rather than board the US rescue vessel. Until they start drowning that is.

    I would point out that nations infrequently invade other nations for shits and gigs, or because "they could". Russia "could" destroy mankind tomorrow if they wanted, or at least have a damn good shot at it - people are motivated by self interest or mania, one of the two.

    Soviet revanchism is a major cause. If I lived in some shitty St Petersburg apartment under an autocrat I'd probably want the "good old days" of Truman and Stalin racing to space.

    I agree Crimea is a complex issue with several causes, justifications, excuses and a long history.
     
  22. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You're entitled to your views, and I trust they are honestly held, but I see this particular opinion as reflecting Russian propaganda justifying an attack on a sovereign state.
    They lost elements of an empire when the Soviet Union fell apart and the Russian public generally identified with the empire and feel the loss of influence and power.
    Sure. Canada, for example, has never had nuclear weapons even though it was part of the Manhattan Project. Canada could easily create a Doomsday weapon. So, too, the UK, France, China, India, and perhaps even Pakistan.
    I'm sure you describe the sensibilities of many Russians.
    And the Ukraine is not without its own problems.
     
  23. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What justification? Point out to me where I justified anything. Explaining the casual chain that led up to the annexation is not to justify it.

    I'd also note that Russia is not saying that they annexed them to evade US sanctions, they're saying the people of Crimea voted to join Russia because they are facing oppression from Kiev.

    I agree.

    If Russia without notice launched ICBMs at Beijing, Washington, New Delhi, Sydney, Tokyo, London, Berlin, and Paris it would seriously endanger the human race.

    My point is that people don't do acts of this magnitude "just cos". There is always a reason, maybe a bad reason. Maybe their leaders are psychotic in a medical sense.

    Have you ever seen Arkangel with Daniel Craig as lead? Great flick about this topic.

    It is very easy to agitate the popular feeling of this loss of prestige. Just ask the people of Weimar Germany.

    Absolutely. Their flag is awful, they should change that then work on the more important stuff.

    Rome wasn't built in a day.
     
  24. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree they annexed the Crimea to avoid sanctions.
    Russia interfered with the internal politics of a sovereign state.
    So what? Other countries can become an existential threat.
    I think the loss of prestige is far less important than a bad economy.
     
  25. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That doesn't really answer my question. What justification?

    I agree. My point is that my position and Russian propaganda are not on the same page.

    I apologise that the original point didn't translate from my head to the page as well as I'd hoped. For now I'll concede it.

    Sure, a bad economy is either the dominant factor or a consequence of other causes. Most loss of prestige leads to economic ruin and vice versa.

    Good discussion by the way.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019

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