Are vaccines really effective in preventing Covid infections (and deaths)?

You have made my case!

Now... the fact that you don't understand what this means will not be resolved in this thread because that is not its purpose. However, there are many other threads that can help you out.

The question is why have cases and deaths come down since January. Given that you and your fellow right-wing extremists believe that vaccine mandates, passports, etc... would not help solve the problem. Is it because your "idol" (Trump) is out of office?

Care to answer?

 

You are certainly doing your part to ensure it remains polarized. It’s not right wingers coming up with the evidence vaccines are not doing a good job decreasing rates of infection. It’s science. If a right winger makes a statement about this fact I don’t see how that’s polarizing. Certainly not more polarizing than the OP.

I am much more concerned about accurate information being available to the public to save lives. Right wingers nor left wingers have done much to inform people on ways to prevent infection and serious illness from SARS-CoV-2. Both have used Covid as a political weapon. Someone of any political persuasion that is more concerned about politics of Covid than helping themselves and others be safe from Covid is part of the problem.

 

This thread proves that people are capable of failing to read all of the words in simple sentences if it suits them.

"Independent thinker"? Heh, no.

 

I never denied the vaccines greatly reduce hospitalizations and deaths. But, they do not stop the spread and the vaccinated are spreading the virus. Therefore, there is no need for vaccine passports or mandates because they do not stop the spread. The only difference is if YOU want to have an increased chance of hospitalization and death by not being vaccinated and that is YOUR choice. It should not be mandated. You should not be refused entrance to places and you should not be fired from your job. All of this is unnecessary because vaccinated people spread the virus just as much as unvaccinated people do. People should have the choice of whether they want to risk the vaccine or the virus. It is NOT a public health issue because the vaccinated can infect others just as much as the unvaccinated do. That is the point of my post.

 

Good Christ---read your OWN LINK!

Moreover, evidence that it does prevent covid is all over the damned place if you bother to look!

 

You seem to be going back and forth between science and your political dogma.

Instead of going into your typical pseudoscientific diatribe, why don't you answer directly and clearly? Is the decrease in infections and deaths (which is the relevant part) we have seen since January due mainly to the vaccines or not?

Yes or no will suffice. The question is not about what ISN'T decreasing the number of dead.... Only about what IS. I know you struggle between obvious scientific fact and your political dogma and that you tend to fill the gap with pseudoscience. But I'm not interested in your existential conflicts. I'm only interested in listening to people's opinions about the topic of this thread.

 

Great! Then my case is made.

The question is not about "stopping" the spread. It's about the decrease we have seen since January.

Focus!

And BTW, Covid, without hospitalizations and death... is not a problem anymore. So I get your lame attempt at a strawman. But I'm afraid it failed miserably.

 

So, you are ok with not blaming the unvaccinated for the spread? You are ok with them attending events because they don't spread the virus any more than a vaccinated person does? You are ok with people not getting fired from their jobs because they don't spread the virus any more than a vaccinated person does? You realize that vaccine passports and mandates are not necessary and that everyone has the right to choose about their own medical health?

 

No, everything I posted was science except for my criticism of both sides making Covid political. Would you like to provide evidence the science I presented isn’t sound or dispute both sides haven’t politicized Covid? You will get no dogmatic response from me. I abhor your political games and the games of the right. I care nothing about the politics as I said—health is my focus.

Instead of calling science you aren’t educated enough to understand “pseudoscience” why don’t you respond directly to the science I presented on how vaccines are not effective at preventing infection/transmission 3 months post vaccination?

Your premise is false as usual. I already presented evidence infection rates and deaths are at ALL TIME highs in places like Vermont that have the highest vaccination rates in the country. Of course vaccination is not responsible for decreased death or infection there because death and infections have increased along with vaccination rates. Why do you think that is?

Yes or no doesn’t suffice. The topic is too complex for someone like you who only views things through partisan lenses. If you want science based answers it can’t be yes or no because the science is clear that in places like Vermont rates of infection and death are INCREASING with vaccination not decreasing as you propose. Virology and epidemiology are more complex than your media sites lead you to believe. You of course were completely unaware of the situation In Vermont because you rely on media and politics instead of statistics and science when forming your unsubstantiated opinions.

I’m not interested in opinions. I’m only interested in the science and facts. You have no interest in the science. If you did, you would have been aware your premise is false.

 

The unvaccinated are the primary responsible for keeping this alive. Their poor choice has extended this pandemic. Or maybe we could say the primary responsible are the antivaxxers who spread false information. Because they themselves are probably snuggly vaccinated when they spew their anti-science nonsense.

But this thread is not about "blame" for spreading the virus. It's about what is to blame for STOPPING it.

Vaccine passports and mandates are indispensable in stopping it. But again, not the topic of this thread.

 

In case no one knows, vaccines are totally useless.
Total number of cases is increasing linearly as well as to fatal outcomes.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-cases-daily

 

I know of one side trying to make it political (yours) and the other trying to follow whatever science is available. But if you refuse to answer the question, I can't do much about it.

 

LOL. More denial of science. Does the term sequelae mean anything to you?

 

I don’t have a political side. You do not follow available science. You are politicizing Covid.

 

Nope... I'm trying to de-politicize it by ridiculing those who politicize it. Which requires a use of politics for the purposes of "reductio ad absurdum".

 

Sure. We believe you.

Tip. When you use false premises and denial of science as you have here in attempt to ridicule others, you end up ridiculing yourself. Amusing.

 

If vaccines or masks have any use we should get rid of the virus already.
It is not happening.

 

I believe him. Your posts are absurdly twisted politicizations of the issues.

 

Because far too many people aren't vaccinated and aren't masked. You're presuming that CV19 spreads equally among both groups, which is silly and untrue. Come on.

 

So untrue that the most vaccinated areas have the vaccinating catching Covid and getting sick.

 

Proof beyond your empty claims?

 

Unvaccinated people keep serving as a breeding ground for the virus to mutate into more virulent strains..

 

What specifically is political about my posts?

My posts are primarily science.

 

You're deliberately misconstruing facts to align with your political ideology. That's why it's Trumpsim masquerading as "science", which is to say it's not science at all.

 

No they aren't because the vaccinated people are spreading the virus. If 100% of everyone had been vaccinated, we would be pretty much right where we are now because the CDC now acknowledges that the vaccinations don't stop the spread of the virus. I have already posted that.

98% of fully vaccinated people test positive for the virus:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/connecticut-nursing-home-covid-19-222848723.html

Iceland, with a vaccination rate of 89% is experiencing a surge in cases and the US has advised citizens to not travel to Iceland.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-11-iceland-tightens-covid-cases-surge.html