Biden doing exactly what Trump said he would do regarding Chinese cars.

Well, honestly, you're right... but it's already been developed by the Chinese and it's going to roll out full speed in Eurasia first with S. America to follow shortly.

The main point is that the Chinese are FORWARD-thinking, and here in the States we want to penalize them for it!

 

So, you're ok with this, as you are simply opposed to trade with China!

Are you opposed to trade with other countries, or just China?

Are you opposed to Toyota?

 

Good points.

China subsidizes its auto manufacturing to a serious degree - putting our own rebates to shame. That is part of the car problem.

I think the battery issue is larger. It's hard to progress on EVs when denied access to good batteries, since that's so central.

Also, any clean energy strategy needs batteries. In fact, they help with grid issues regardless of how power is generated.

Cutting us off from the best batteries is a bad idea.

China explicitly plans to electrify the world's energy with their outstanding batteries, while we're well behind and admitting that we can't withstand the competition.

 

It's not.

 

As I've said, China is a unique danger to us. We're in a cold war with them, although they know it and we don't seem to know it. To me, separating from China just seems like common sense from both a national security and economic point of view.

Really you act like you've never heard any of this before.

 

I've lived through the cold war and Vietnam.

We have serious trade issues to work out, but calling it a cold war is not OK.

 

We shall see.

 

Actually, Jack, look what I found (but didn't have time to look up yesterday):

There actually is such a thing as "battery swapping"! Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batte...tery switching,vehicle via a charging station.

It turns out that a Chinese company called "NIO" has already put this 'battery-swapping' technology into use and has already "swapped" millions of EV batteries -- but you don't hear about this in the United States.

When you google-up 'swapping EV batteries' you'll find all kinds of links, including YouTube videos!

I first heard about this from a friend of mine in Germany a few weeks ago, and I didn't believe it....

 

Hmmm.
On average, EV batteries weigh around 454 kg (1,000 pounds), with bigger models weighing as much as 900 kg (2,000 pounds) and some even up to 1,800 kg (4,000 pounds).

 

Yes, but it's not humans who are removing and replacing the EV batteries. Did you see the YouTube videos? It's all done by machines! You just drive into an enclosure, sensors identify exactly what battery needs to be exchanged, machinery extracts the depleted battery, installs the new one, and the driver is back on the road in minutes!

And, it turns out that this technology has actually been several years in the making -- by the Chinese (and Taiwanese). "Back in the day" it was America that brought the world a "better mousetrap"... but now it appears that's changing. And our answer is to slap TARIFFS on people who are more forward-thinking that we are?

 

We shall see.
My problem with EV's has always been that they are a technological step backward, so the rush to the rear does not impress me.

 

Brilliantly stated. I'll have to steal that.

 

Be my guest.

 

Well I'm not sure what makes it "not OK" to identify what seems obvious.

 

I believe we are a long ways from a time when car batteries are standardized.

Today battery technology is a key differentiator, including how it is built into the car.

The problem isn't that a company can build a car with swappable batteries. It's that building

 

Some of their trade policies can rightly be considered unacceptable.

Blowing that up into a war doesn't improve anything or give us better options.

 

I'm not trying to start a war, just the opposite. I want to reduce our economic dependence on a country that regards us as the enemy. It's pretty simple to me.

 

That is making it part of a war.

That makes no sense at all, if the objective is to move toward reasonable trade law.

The best idea was to join a pacific trade organization that would better be able to make it expensive to ignore fair trade practices.

Yes, Trump killed that, but that doesn't make it impossible.

 

I didn't say my objective was to move toward "reasonable trade law." There isn't even a concept with what that would mean. That's like defining fair trade; you have to specify exactly what you are talking about.

In my case, I already have. China is a threat and we shouldn't be economically dependent on them. That has nothing to do with "reasonable trade law."

 

There certainly are strong ideas of what is reasonable trade law.

THAT is why Biden and Trump took action - NOT because of some war you want our trade to be part of.

Considering this as a part of a war warps our efforts to negotiate or otherwise push for what is best for America and America's manufacturing.

 

This entire thread you've been ignoring "what is best for America and America's manufacturing" in order to get hold of some cheap Chinese EV's and solar panels.

 

I want those things to be fairly priced - that is, not majorly subsidized by the Chinese government like they are now.

I want China to respect patents and otherwise not steal corporate property.

Etc.

Putting prohibitive patents on batteries and solar needs special justification as it harms America.

China sells high quality EVs for a fraction of the price. Part of that is government investment/subsidies. Part of that is the labor market difference and part of it is the availability of superior batteries.

If US legacy auto manufacturing cared about EVs, I'd understand cutting off our access to good EVs.

But, they don't. In fact, they form industry groups including oil companies and Toyota to fight AGAINST EVs.

So, why are we trying to deny the US of high quality EVs??? It is certainly NOT in order to allow Toyota and legacy manufacturers to catch up.

We should allow competition, perhaps with tariffs that match our understanding of Chinese subsidies. If EVs are popular, maybe these manufacturers will create good EVs. Or, maybe not. What ever - its a free market, I hope.

 

"I want those things to be fairly priced - that is, not majorly subsidized by the Chinese government like they are now.

I want China to respect patents and otherwise not steal corporate property."

Yes but that's never going to happen, then what?

"So, why are we trying to deny the US of high quality EVs??? It is certainly NOT in order to allow Toyota and legacy manufacturers to catch up.

We should allow competition, perhaps with tariffs that match our understanding of Chinese subsidies. If EVs are popular, maybe these manufacturers will create good EVs. Or, maybe not. What ever - its a free market, I hope."

Already explained it multiple times in this thread. Why are you just repeating yourself?

 

Biden's tariffs have that in mind.

I would have chosen to have a pacific trade organization that could put pressure on China from a significant number of important Chinese export destinations.

You tend to misconstrue my posts.

And, you haven't explained your reason for tying trade issues to cold war claims.

 

Yeah it's not. The Chinese don't do r&r they just rip other people off. And the cost of having lower prices is having child slaves in Congo mining raw materials.

If they were as good as ours with lower prices that's all anyone would drive.

If I sold five star top quality prime steaks for $4 a piece nobody would spend $80 at a five-star restaurant.