Biden Is Good At Buying Votes

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Just A Man, Apr 18, 2024.

  1. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, these measures have to go through Congress, and it's weird how that even though the GOP controls the House and supposedly the purse strings, we just keep spending and spending and spending.

    How is it that the House is passing Ukraine funding and not border security?
     
  2. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    21,128
    Likes Received:
    7,772
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Repubs killed the bill.
     
  3. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6,988
    Likes Received:
    5,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A true border security bill cannot be passed with the Democrats in charge of the Senate and the White House. This is the concept that is too complicated for the far right Republicans.

    Yes, the House might pass a bill with funding for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan in it PLUS some sort of border security in it. If the border security part had any teeth, the Senate would amend or reject it and send it back to the House. Even if a the ideal border security bill were to be passed, Biden could veto, or the Biden puppet team would refuse to enforce the laws that are on the books.

    Does that sound extreme? How can a president refuse to enforce the law? Very easily. Biden has done it since he took office. He has endorsed an open border, and he's spending money on student loan forgiveness in defiance of a Supreme Court decision. Even Nancy Pelosi says Biden needs to get congressional approval for what he's doing, but he's doing it.

    The far right Republicans need to get their heads out of their butts and look at the big picture. If they don't have the votes in the House, Senate and White House, nothing they want will be passed. If they have another BS fight over the House Speakership, they will lose the whole ball of wax.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
    Mitt Ryan likes this.
  4. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Tell you what. When we back away from this debt cliff we're about to go over we can fight about who gets what. Until then, pointing fingers and claiming the high ground isn't going to keep us from going over the cliff.
     
  5. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fake news, that's why most of the GOP House wanted the bill combined with Ukraine aid, so that the Senate couldn't have one, without the other.

    But, rather than forcing the Senate to forego Ukraine spending, if they wouldn't secure the border, enough of the GOP helped Dems out of the fix, and now they get the Ukraine spending without having to secure the border, when securing the border would put upward pressure on the real wages of working folks in America.

    So how is it that you claim that Republicans that opposed splitting these bills lack your sophistication?
    Then that's the choice they make, they'd rather not fund Ukraine than secure the US border. Why do you want to relieve them of that?
    And if we don't get what we want, they don't get what they want. Why are you claiming that giving them what they want, while we don't get what we want is a higher level of thinking, when its simply getting rolled?
    So, either we pass what Dems want or lose the Speakership? What is the point of the Speakership if the price of having it is not getting what we want and giving Dems what they want?

    Your position makes no sense, there must be additional factors in your view that you aren't disclosing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  6. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6,988
    Likes Received:
    5,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We shall agree to disagree.
     
  7. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You put out your view as intellectually superior, and I asked you clearly and simply to explain why giving Ukraine all these $Billions without securing our border was the intellectually superior position, and you can't defend your position.

    'Congress is set to appropriate $61 billion for Ukraine, on top of at least $113 billion that Congress has already blown on the corrupt, authoritarian, non-ally, irrelevance to definable U.S. national interests that is slowly losing a war of attrition with Russia. To put this further in perspective, much-criticized U.S. aid to Israel totaled an inflation-adjusted $300 billion over nearly eight decades from 1946-2023.'

    https://capitalistnotes.substack.com/p/republicans-guilty-of-suppressing

    Democrats just say flat no, and that you're fine with. If you were intellectually consistent, then you would also be fine with Republicans just saying flat no. But instead you posit that when Dems say no that the GOP should give in, and you claim this view as more enlightened.

    I don't blame you for not attempting to defend your position, I don't see how it's defendable.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    151,868
    Likes Received:
    63,916
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the Republican tax cuts for the rich need to be undone
     
  9. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6,988
    Likes Received:
    5,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    For the second or third time. We cannot afford another 2022 type of election where we way underperform. The average voters want to live in a melon patch where Washington lays around like vegetables. Disruptions, government shutdowns and protracted, messy fights over who becomes the next Republican Speaker of the House does us no good. Everytime the government has been shut down, the voters blamed the Republicans. We got nothing for it. If you are going to raise hell, you need to accomplish something.

    Holding Ukraine funding hostage for the border is not going to work. If the Ukraine falls, you can bet the Democrats will blame the Republicans, and the charge will stick with a majority of the voters. If China takes Formosa, it will be the same thing. Israel will not fail because they have the will to live, even if Washington abandons them.

    If the Republicans performed a miracle and got a border security bill through Congress, the Biden puppet team would not enforce the law. They have not enforced the law for three years. Why would they start now? Do you think you are going to impeach Biden? You couldn't even get a vote in the Senate on Mayorkis.

    To get anything done,
    we need to control the whole elected government, House, Senate and White House. We have control of the House by a thread. That is under attack because of the perception that the Republicans are too fractured to function.

    We have an opportunity to take the Senate because so many Democrat seats are up grabs, some in vulnerable states, like Montana (Tester), Ohio and West Virginia.

    The Democrats are doing all they can to defeat Trump. They want to put him in jail, and they won't let him campaign. I'd say Trump has far less than a 50% chance of winning.

    So go ahead. Fight a dumb losing battle now. Kick the Republican Speaker out of office. See what it gets you. I'll tell you. Far less than nothing.

    Now that is my opinion, and I'm sticking by it. If you want stupid civil war with me, you are not going to get it because I've laid out my opinion. If you don't like it, too bad.



     
  10. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How come Democrats don't need the whole of elected government to get what they want, but we do, and even when we do have the whole of elected government, Dems don't seem to ever lose any ground, they just stop gaining ground as quickly.

    If Democrats know that they can vote for a border security bill, and Bribed Joe still won't enforce it, then why didn't they just vote for it to get the Ukraine aid?
    I don't. But when you cast your views on a debate board as occupying a higher intellectual plane, you should be expected to justify that assertion.

    You're arguing that if we just give in now, that we'll gain control and then we'll win, but we've been falling for that song and dance for a good part of a quarter century.

    You've also skipped over some points that I'm still curious about.
    How come Democrats don't have to do the same?

    How about because their ranks aren't populated with surrender monkeys?

    Did you support expelling George Santos?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  11. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6,988
    Likes Received:
    5,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Democrats have the presidency. That's where most of power lies, especially when the president is above the law and will do what he damn pleases.
     
  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We were told the same thing when we had the presidency but didn't have the House.

    The reasons change, but the message is still the same, the GOP has to give in, the Dems don't.

    Back to your claim that the GOP had to give up combining Ukraine and US Border aid, if Biden wasn't going to enforce it anyway, they why didn't the Dems just vote for it?

    When you have an opponent that won't give an inch, and we're always finding reasons to surrender, what do you think happens?
     
  13. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    54,038
    Likes Received:
    50,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't know how it's possible for any adult to be so completely misinformed.... Or maybe it's just you blatantly pedaling this disinformation knowingly?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  14. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    54,038
    Likes Received:
    50,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    According to you all of the wealthy people live in the blue States so how in the hell could anyone in a red State afford to hire anyone?

    And yet somehow the red states are the ones that feed the blue States. Bring on the separation of this nation so the lazy and spoiled entitled blue staters can figure out how to feed their own damn self.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  15. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8,687
    Likes Received:
    4,032
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We Canadians produce a big surplus of grain. We are happy to sell it to the northern USA.
     
  16. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    72,750
    Likes Received:
    93,075
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You're not going to like this, but....


    upload_2024-4-20_16-57-55.png

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-aid-by-state
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  17. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6,988
    Likes Received:
    5,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I want a chance to win elections. You are more driven to raise hell.

    To most American voters, Margery Taylor Greene = AOC. They are two sides of extremism to most American voters. If you want Margery to be the spokesperson for the Republican Party, get ready for the Democrat Uniparty. Once they get control, they will pass laws that will have them win almost every election forever.
     
  18. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your claim is fake news. You seem to view winning elections as an end whereas I view winning elections as a means to an end. Looks like it's your self-righteousness is again raising it's head in your assumption that I hold my views for less than reasonable reasons. It's a bit tiresome.
    There is nothing extreme about bundling Ukraine/Border spending. You seem a bit prone to catastrophizing. You're arguing that if we don't give in, that we'll never win another election, but once again, you don't explain why Dems never give into anything, and yet they win elections nearly as often as we do.

    And I see, that once again, you haven't explained why Dems didn't simply vote for it, if Biden would just promptly negate it if it passed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  19. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6,988
    Likes Received:
    5,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, @Zorro, you are headed for the political fringe. If you can’t see that the Biden puppet group holds 95% of cards, especially when they own the Senate, you are not dealing in political reality. With Biden in power, AOC is a major force in the Democrat Party. With Trump in power, she is Daffy Duck.

    I don’t why you attack your allies, but I guess that’s what political extremists do. Can we agree to shut up and go after the real enemies, the progressive Democrats?
     
    Mitt Ryan likes this.
  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You've been asked to logically support your point, and all you seem to be able to come up with, is name calling. You seem to really have a problem with being disagreed with. You do realize that you are on a debate board and that there is nothing wrong with be asked to logically support your points? And if you are unable to do so, the logical thing is to reconsider your point, not to engage in name calling.
    You claimed that we can't do anything but concede to Dems, if we don't hold both Houses of Congress and the Presidency. But they do not hold what you claim is necessary to prevail, yet you still argue that must allow them to prevail.
    You have yet to deal with that rather obvious question about your position.
    When you keep demanding that we flop to our opponent, or you'll name call, you really aren't much of an ally.
    You are certainly free to shut up, though I would prefer that you sharpen your points by engaging them in debate. I have no intention of doing anything other than continuing to debate.
    You aren't really engaging in battle when you keep demanding that Republicans surrender.

    You also asserted that the GOP had to split Ukraine funding from US border funding, to save Dems having to admit that they are so committed open borders, that are filling our cities with deadly poisons, disease, crime, and low wage illegal workers that are sapping services and undercutting US pay, that they would rather forego Ukraine funding than close the border. Your reason for this demanding the GOP flop?

    You claimed that even if Dems passed the bill that Biden wouldn't enforce it. If that's true, then why didn't Dems simply vote for the bill, take the Ukraine funding, and rely on Bribed Joe to ignore the border security?

    Do not fear subjecting your claims to rigorous debate, it's how flaws are exposed so that you can sharpen them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,742
    Likes Received:
    7,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    YES he is buying votes!! Like a proper president he is trying to do things that benefit the country and the people. PEOPLE VOTE FOR THOSE WHO DO THAT! And what would you have him do? Act like Trump?????

    (I notice you provided no link. Maybe you're ashamed of your sources.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  22. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6,988
    Likes Received:
    5,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I answered you in the context of winning elections. You respond with an attack. There is nothing to discuss. You and I will vote the same way. Be happy with that, but don’t be surprised when the Democrats control everything after you have exercised your strategy.
     
  23. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2022
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    May be when RED state contribute to federal tax , we will listen to them. Until then our suggestion is , we who pay , we will decide.
     
  24. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2022
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh I like the link you sent me. I am sure when you use your wisdom you will see my way too. CA a state with 39 million resident, federal aid is 162 billion, on the other hand state of Miss with 2.9 million takes 59 billion USD federal aid. May be you can figure out 2.9 million resident takes 59 billion federal aid is much more dependent on federal government then state of CA.

    These data are from your link.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    78,193
    Likes Received:
    52,726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't think that unnecessarily flopping before Democrats suppresses the GOP vote?

    Don't be surprised if Dems control everything after you have exercised your strategy.

    Just Like Democrats And Joe Biden, Mike Johnson Supports An Open Southern Border

    [​IMG]

    'It’s no secret that the D.C. political class cares more about fortifying Ukraine’s borders than America’s.'

    'Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell let the cat out of the bag in May 2022 when he admitted that President Biden and congressional leadership agreed “the most important thing going on in the world right now is the war in Ukraine.”'

    '“[D]efeating the Russians in Ukraine is the single most important event going on in the world right now,” McConnell claimed, as America’s southern border remained open, inflation rose, and the federal government abused its intel agencies to target Republicans.'

    'Of course, neither McConnell nor any other D.C. politico who backs U.S. funding for Ukraine has ever bothered to articulate what America’s strategy is for accomplishing such a feat — and therein lies the main problem.'

    'More than two years and $113 billion later, Ukraine isn’t any closer to beating Russia than the day Moscow launched its invasion. There has been no explanation from the Biden administration or any “Ukraine First” member of Congress on what they view as a reasonable resolution to the conflict.'

    https://thefederalist.com/2024/04/1...as-no-plan-for-ending-the-russia-ukraine-war/
     

Share This Page