Brazil's right wing government moves to attack indigenous constitutional rights

I feel like I have stumbled into the middle of a family fued

All I know about brazil is Llama firearms and The Girl from Ipanema

 

Lol,........

 

What a trololol, to refuse simple facts that Bolsonaro was voted by a large majority of the people, that a large majotity of the people was outraged about the chuzpah Lula da Silva and Dilma Roussef showed without any shame (Lula wanted to get elected as president as he was on trial for corruption, while Dilma Roussef as well as Lula deny any responsibility for the scandals under their leadership and feeling entitled to rule the state not matter what the voter wanted), that Bolsonaro gained a lot of support from mixed and Black favelas who became tired to be bullied by drug lords.

So there was no "the white man is evil" propaganda? Lol!

"...

President Lula said white, blue-eyed people - not Indians, nor black, nor poor people - had created and spread the crisis throughout the world.

..."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7967546.stm

There have been two cases of anti-White policy which has made headlines and created an outburst, one of twins one approved for university as part of a Black affirmative program, the other one being evaluated as "too White" by the same university (showing how randomly these "politically correct" people can play God), the other one of a dark skinned student who later went on trial because due to the fact that his bloodline was not "Black" enough they accused him of cheating when he applied for a University.

You can argue here whatever you want, these disgusting people are completely ****ed now. If some ******* would rule the White House the US might have sanctioned/boycotted Brazil to keep Bolsonaro in line but who should now? Trump? Lol! Duterte? Lol! Salvini or Orban? Lol! Game over, they are more dead than Salvador Allende is.

 

Actually, it was smallpox and other diseases.

------

The collapse of the Inca Empire started when the Spaniards arrived in Central America and transmitted their diseases to locals who spread them to other parts of the continent including South America. It is believed that in ten years between 50% and 90% of the population was attacked by diseases like smallpox, influenza, typhus, diphtheria, chicken pox and measles, disease spread alarmingly fast as Amerindians did not have the immunity to fight off newly brought viruses. Influenza and smallpox were the main causes of death among the Inca population and it affected not only the working class but also the nobility. As a result disease weakened the working class which resulted in lower agricultural output as well as in the effectiveness of the communication network which were the backbone in the success of the empire. Without its reliable communication network which used man power or chasquis,officials in Cusco, the capital, did not know what was happening as they were invaded in the north. When the nobility got affected by disease it unraveled previously unseen struggle for power and a fight for the succession to the crown of Sapa Inca. This situation triggered a civil war between supporters of the two brothers Atahualpa and Huascar which enabled the Spaniards quick access to the control and the wealth of the empire.

-------------

http://www.discover-peru.org/the-fall-of-the-inca-empire/

 

Oh Please, Lula if he did anything wrong it was something very small, his arrest something Bolsonaro was involved in and without question if he had not been thrown in jail, he would be President. He is who the people wanted even if his support had gone down due to the economic difficulties the whole word is suffering.

I am remembering that the people were very concerned about what Bolsonaro was going to do with the indigenous people and also the environment and him being, and papers said his over and over and over, fascist. He believes the Military junta killed far to few people and said he would encourage the police to kill people. Obviously gay people are themselves afraid for their lives. Glen Greenwald in a recent interview said being killed was something they had to accept as a possibility every day. Brazil seems to have got a virus of American Christian Evangelicalism, which Bolsonaro himself has. He actually made a mistake recently and did profess a Christian value. When speaking of the holocaust, he said it could be forgiven but not forgotten and got hell from Israel, but not Netanyhu for that....and then they also have the difficulty of Bolsonora who again remember papers said was the real deal fascism wise, being a Trumpette and determined to destroy Brazil and her rainforests all to feed the pockets of the 0.1%.

Yep people did write that they were deeply concerned about the indigenous people from his election propaganda but he also promised to do things like destroy the left and human rights. On that he did do well getting Lula in jail. That certainly helped to destroy the left on a non physical way - that is without killing so far. He also was apparently much helped by being stabbed. Like in Holland that seems to do a lot for getting people elected. I hear he further benefited because he claimed to be unable to be questioned during the election campaign, though obviously a few things snuck out like the women he found to ugly to rape and him preferring his son to be dead rather than gay.

I do not believe in the death penalty but if I did his intended destruction of the Rain forests at this point in time would receive it.

 

The newspapers published some polls which stated so, as well as some polls did favor his successor, Hadad. All of them were wrong obviously, Bolsonaro won with a wide margin.

Not the people, some leftist nutcases. As the election shows us a lot of the people wanna see this kind of Marxists dead.

The message to these kind of marxists was a "**** you!" by the US voters. Well, in Brazil things got heated up and it was even more polarizing, the clear message of the Braziluian voters to these kind of Marxists is "We will kill you! One by one!"

Obviously, there are also gay people who supported Bolsonaro!

Who is "they"? A marxist minority who is outnumbered?

Lula was sent to jail before Bolsonaro got elected. For corruption. Of course you cannot expect any self-reflection by a socialist candidate who thinks he in entitled to own the state.

Give Bolsonaro time and the killing will follow.

It illustrates perfectly how the socialists deal with political opponents and make all the people who dont wanna go down the road with them, that they should not count on peaceful co-existence. So the voters took that into consideration and voted for Bolsonaro.

So despite all your outrage obviously a lot of women voted for him. Isn't it funny, you wanna explain that gays despise Bolsonaro, but in fact many gays voted for him. You accuse him of being a racist, but a lot of Black Brazilians voted for him. Now you play the sexist card, but a lot of women voted for him.

He, the military and his voters believe in the death penalty and I am positive they will wipe out all this nasty socialists that dream about killing him like the assassin.

 

"Certainly the spread of European diseases killed large numbers of people but the brutality of the conquistadors is well documented by their own accounts. Las Casas and Sepulveda among many others documented the forced slavery, murder of women and children and burning of civilians live. And of course you are leaving out Pizzaro's treachery which set a precedent for all other agreements and negotiations taken on by the colonials and then reneged upon:

Pizarro invited Atahuallpa to attend a feast in his honor, and the emperor accepted. Having just won one of the largest battles in Inca history, and with an army of 30,000 men at his disposal, Atahuallpa thought he had nothing to fear from the bearded white stranger and his 180 men. Pizarro, however, planned an ambush, setting up his artillery at the square of Cajamarca.

On November 16, Atahuallpa arrived at the meeting place with an escort of several thousand men, all apparently unarmed. Pizarro sent out a priest to exhort the emperor to accept the sovereignty of Christianity and Emperor Charles V., and Atahuallpa refused, flinging a Bible handed to him to the ground in disgust. Pizarro immediately ordered an attack. Buckling under an assault by the terrifying Spanish artillery, guns, and cavalry (all of which were alien to the Incas), thousands of Incas were slaughtered, and the emperor was captured.

Atahuallpa offered to fill a room with treasure as ransom for his release, and Pizarro accepted. Eventually, some 24 tons of gold and silver were brought to the Spanish from throughout the Inca empire. Although Atahuallpa had provided the richest ransom in the history of the world, Pizarro treacherously put him on trial for plotting to overthrow the Spanish, for having his half-brother Huascar murdered, and for several other lesser charges. A Spanish tribunal convicted Atahuallpa and sentenced him to die. On August 29, 1533, the emperor was tied to a stake and offered the choice of being burned alive or strangled by garrote if he converted to Christianity. In the hope of preserving his body for mummification, Atahuallpa chose the latter, and an iron collar was tightened around his neck until he died."

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pizarro-executes-last-inca-emperor

Still, an examination and discussion of history from different perspectives is a good thing.

 

Sure, you are advocating for mass murder of socialists but I am the troll?? This mass murder you speak of is just what you would expect of right-wing death squads and a government that praises the former militatry dictatorship as law and order.

And lets face it, he ran on a platform of fighting crime and poverty but even with all the corruption and scandal, if da Silva was allowed to run he would have kicked Bolsonaros ass.

Now Balsonaro is propogating the kind of violence formerly associated with the most corrupt and murderous of Latin American regimes where death squads disappeared dissidents and fear ruled the population. fighting the lawlessness with more open government sanctioned violence is only going down that well trodden road to dictatorship and mass murder so common in American supported far-right regimes from Chile to El Salvador and beyond.

His vice president is an outspoken advocate of military dictatorship as he himself has often spoken in support of.

Far from ending corruption, his sons are already embroiled in scandal and have deep ties to organized crime.

Opening up the Amazon and constitutionally protected aboriginal lands to foreign occupation and exploitation is a long practiced foible in Latin America which always leads to more poverty, more violence and environmental destruction of some of the last wilderness areas of the planet - in fact the Amazon has been described and the planets lungs.

And you want to see it destroyed along with anyone who stands in the way of the violent rise of yet another right-wing dictatorship.

Your advocating of more violence and death as a means of solving Brazilès social problems is telling as to what your agenda is....

 

I am no Brazilian, so I did not vote for Bolsonaro. Violence is the last step ... the Brazilian voters obviously estimated this final step as necessary. Let's say I dont judge them.

Again ... and again ... the mass media tried to imply the same with Hadad and with Hillary Clinton before ... they only provoke people in deep despise/hate for the political elite even more with their support ... so deliver more of it.

He never denied his support of the military dictatorship and a vast majority of the voters cheered for him. So, you see where you can stick stick all that drivel up to. Your "evil White man" propaganda failed, the man who wanted to play that card is in prison for corruption and the guy who openly said if it was up to him he would be wiped out is in charge now.

As the Red Command or the PCC had never ties to the socialists. You dont give us no new information here, you just miss the point , he was voted despite or maybe even because of it.

As Bolsonaro will of course burn down the whole rain forrest. That's as certain as Trump will never become president.

The voters decided. The result is, your ******* brothers and sisters in Brazil are completely ****ed. There is no Hillary to boycot Brazil, their comrades in Venezuela are fighting for their own lifes, basically they can run for their lifes. I hope they dont follow the example of Jean Wyllys and choose my neighbourhood as exile.

 

You are insulting the Incas if you insist that Pizarro and his small band of Spanish soldiers conquered such a large and sophisticated empire.

The Incans were defeated by disease.

 

It was a combination of both plus some other factors. For me from a modern point of view what the Conquistadores did was vile and gross. Even to the judgement of their contemporary writers they were extremely brutal and immoral. On the other side they were conquerors, this kind of job does attract humanists or peaceful people much less than sociopaths/psychopaths. Many people in history in even darker times than today had this duality, being cold-hearted killers, even committed genocide but had great achievements on the other hand. The Romans burnt war prisoners for fun or fed them to wild beasts, they led wars for the purpose of making slaves, to rape their women and use them for breeding, to capture young men that were whipped to death after a few years in the living hell of mines in Italy. Inhumane to the maximum. On the other hand they pushed forward civilization, they brought aqueducts to Europe, they collected, saved and improved philosophy and the Roman law is still an important basis of civilization up to today.

We can go on and on, there are muss murderers like Attila the Hun, Adolf Hitler, Mao-Tse-Tung or Pablo Escobar who had nothing in their mind but destruction, but many of the slaughterers has this duality like Genghis Khan, Caesar, Napoleon and so on. They were on the one hand gross and brutal characters but played an important role in history. So were the Conquistadores.

As for these atrocities, I dont know if my ancestors were Romans enslaving and raping women or if maybe I am the breed of the victims of them, naturally propably I would find both in my blood line if I dig deep enough. What are we doing with history's unpaid debt? Either we are pragmatic and take what was good of the Roman Empire and ban what was a nightmare of horror or we can cultivate our ancestors suffering and train ourself to hate. You can simply start a new piece of paper, go to Italy, enjoy pasta and admire these stylish elegant people there or hate them for what their ancestors did. Oh these damn Romans I hate the Italians so much for it, I despise them so deep. And the Swedes that invaded Germany in the Great War, who killed 80% of the people where they were invading. I could hate all these Swedes so much, every Swede today, just like the Romans, they are so ignorant.

This last alternative is what "critical whiteness" wants to establish in minorities. It did not work in Brazil though. People - even in the favelas - are sick and tired of drug lords plaing "the avenger of the surpressed Black man", so they put Bolsonaro in charge of it. Not to negotiate but to purge.

In the whole world there is this polarization goingg on and in Brazil the people who started to spin this wheel enthusistically have decent chances to die in the development they started. Karma Police! I dont listen to this **** when Marxists tell that the people in Brazil voted the wrong way and that Bolsonaro is so racist. Everyone knew what he said, every woman knew of what these Marxist slam as sexist. Every Black person knew what he said took it into consideration and many of them wanted him despite of that.

 

I think the diseases suffice to explain the collapse of the New World indigenous civilizations. There was an ancient and sophisticated civilization in the Amazon rainforest that was only briefly glimpsed by the conquistadors and which gave rise to the legend of El Dorado.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/anc...st-once-home-massive-lost-civilization-008342

 

I think recent medical studies are correct, Pot smoking is causing psychosis among the masses.

 

You're lucky I am not in a reporting mood today.

 

And there I was, trying not to offend anyone, just making an astute observation—though I may have the cause and effect reversed. Hard to tell these with the state of public education and Progressive colleges pushing Post-Modern indoctrination. But, hey, it’s the state of the world today. Whatcha ya gonna do. Hey?

 

You re engaging in personal attack rather than debating the issue. As you will be aware that is against forum rules leading to infractions and banning. Stop being a jerk!
I won't reply to you again.

 

As you will. But it’s just an observation, not an accusation.

 

Why is it insulting the Incas to tell the truth about what happened. According to history disease and civil war played a roll in weakening the Incas certainly but it was a military conquest for gold:

"Either held for ransom by Pizarro or even offering a ransom himself, Atahualpa’s safe return to his people was promised if a room measuring 6.2 x 4.8 metres were filled with all the treasures the Incas could provide up to a height of 2.5 m. This was done, and the chamber was piled high with gold objects from jewellery to idols. The room was then filled twice again with silver objects. The whole task took eight months, and the value today of the accumulated treasures would have been well over $50 million. Meanwhile, Atahualpa continued to run his empire from captivity, and Pizarro sent exploratory expeditions to Cuzco and Pachacamac while he awaited reinforcements from Panama, enticed by sending a quantity of gold to hint at the wealth on offer. Then, having got his ransom, Pizarro summarily tried and executed Atahualpa anyway, on the 26th of July, 1533 CE. The Inca king was originally sentenced to death by burning at the stake, but after the monarch agreed to be baptised, this was commuted to death by strangulation.

Having cut off the snake’s head, the Spanish then set about conquering Cuzco with its vast golden treasures which were reported by Hernando Pizarro following his reconnaissance expedition there. After that, they could deal with the rest of the empire. The first battle was with troops loyal to Atahualpa near Hatun Xauxa, but the Spaniards were helped by the local population delighted to see the back of the Incas. The Spaniards were given supplies from the local Inca storehouses, and Pizarro established his new capital there. Local assistance and the plundering of the Inca storehouses would become a familiar pattern which aided Pizarro for the remainder of his conquest.

The invaders next defeated an army in retreat at Vilcaswaman but did not have everything their own way and even suffered a military defeat when an advance force was attacked by surprise on their way to Cuzco. The next day the Old World visitors resumed their unstoppable march, though, and swept all before them. A brief resistance at Cuzco was overcome, and the city fell into Pizarro’s hands with a whimper on 15th of November, 1533 CE. The treasures of the city and the golden wonders of the Coricancha temple were ruthlessly stripped and melted down.

The Spanish were severely tested in the northern territories, where armies led by Ruminawi and Quizquiz held out, but these too capitulated from internal strife and their leaders were killed. The Europeans’ relentless conquest could not be answered. In this, they were greatly helped by the Inca mode of warfare which was highly ritualised. Such tactics as deceit, ambush, and subterfuge were unknown to them in warfare, as were changing tactics mid-battle and seizing opportunities of weakness in the enemy as they arose. In addition, Inca warriors were highly dependent on their officers, and if these conspicuous individuals fell in battle, a whole army could quickly collapse in panicked retreat. These factors and the superior weaponry of the Europeans meant the Incas had very little chance of defending a huge empire already difficult to manage. The Incas did quickly learn to fight back and deal with cavalry, for example by flooding areas under attack or fighting on rough terrain, but their spears, slings, and clubs could not match bullets, crossbows, swords, and steel armour. The Spaniards also had nearly half the population of the old empire fighting for them as old rivalries and factions re-emerged."

https://www.ancient.eu/article/915/pizarro--the-fall-of-the-inca-empire/

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pizarro-executes-last-inca-emperor

"The Spaniards destroyed almost every Inca building in Cuzco, built a Spanish city over the old foundations, and proceeded to colonize and exploit the former empire.

In total, the conquest took about forty years to complete. Many Inca attempts to regain the empire had occurred, but none had been successful. Thus the Spanish conquest was achieved through relentless force, zealous fanatism and deceit aided by factors like smallpox and a great communication and cultural devide. The Spaniards displaced most of the Incan past and imposed the Spanish culture on the native population."

https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/s/Spanish_conquest_of_the_Inca_Empire.htm



White wash history if that's what suits your narrative but it is pretty clear you are trying to give the conquistadors a pass on their brutality in wiping out the Incas for whatever reason.

 

What the hell are you talking about, the conquistadores would not even have asked him if he was a contemporary character, now what he thinks of it is irrelevant for what have happened. Did Napoleon call you from 19th century and ask for your permission to conquer Spain, Germany, Russia? And did you give him the permission? What kind of nonsense is this.

 

So it’s okay to derive property through force? I’m sure you won’t mind when someone shows up at your house with a gun and claims it from your “primitive” (a term they arbitrarily apply just as you have) ass.

 

What do you mean with "...it's okay...?" ? Is that justice? No, it's utterly unjust. Will it be done? If the one who is showing up at his house is stronger than him and/or any authority which could protect his porperty it will be done, simple as that. Was it okay that Aleander the Great invaded Persia?

You sure, the Indians that were enslaved or expelled, are you sure they colonized that lad before with methods you found to be okay?

 

The poster I was quoting wasn't just saying "it happens". He was pretty clearly advocating for it.

 

Your are defending Incas against western civilization?

Incas practiced mass child human sacrifices.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sacrifice_in_pre-Columbian_cultures#Inca_culture

So, who is it doing the whitewashing? And what is it they are whitewashing? ThecBarbaric practice of infanticide?

 

BFD. As soon as those dead children's corpses no longer serve the purpose of furthering whatever agenda you have you will toss them aside just like everyone else has. At least the culture those kids came from killed them for something unlike our culture which only takes dollars to get an abortion.

No one cares, especially these people whose opinion you are trying to influence.

 

Huh?? Incoherent response.

Weird.