Can a Christian lose their salvation? Or, are there former Christians?

This is incorrect. By a long shot... There is only "one" sin in the Bible that states that "God will not forgive".

 

Yeah...it's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That is rejecting or doubting the Mercy of God--failure to repent.

 

The Holy Spirit has/wears way more hats than just "failure to repent" which you suggest is God's Mercy.

 

How do you know how many hats the Holy Spirit wears?

 

If you have read the Bible, you know that the Holy Spirit holds more than one hat.

You can probably Google the definition and find out yourself if you want...

 

How about this easy definition... The Holy Spirit is God and Jesus combined in one unimaginable, uncontainable essence that cannot be described or defined.

I don't know about you, but I think that's more than one hat...

 

Concerning 1Peter 3:18-20---This is not disobedience under the Mosaic law. These are those who are not believers during the days of Noah. It doesn't indicate in any way a loss of salvation as these were not saved.

True, nothing unclean will enter heaven.

Matt. 5 doesn't prove anything against what I said. I said just because you sin doesn't mean you reject the teaching of Christ. Are you still a sinner? Do your reject the teaching of Christ? The question of righteousness is dealt with by God with sin still present in the believers.

Concerning 1Tim.1:18-20---Hymanaeus and Alexander had made shipwreck of the faith, apparently through some wrong teaching about the resurrection being passed. See 2Tim.2:17 For whatever it was, Paul delievered them unto Satan to learn not to blaspheme. Neither their making shipwreck of the faith or being turned over to Satan indicates any loss of salvation. Paul did the same to another believer in 1Cor.5:1-5. A serious judgement to be sure. But not a loss of salvation.

Concerning John 12:47-48--my mistake. I don't know what verses I was looking at but it apparently wasn't these. But, I don't see how these pertain to losing your salvation, as it is speaking about those who reject Christ.

Quantrill

 

Im not sure what your saying here.

Quantrill

 

The 'unforgiveable sin' is not a sin that automatically keeps one out of Heaven. It is a sin that God will judge in this life. He won't let it go. If a non-believer commits this sin, and God brings judgement and he dies, then he goes to hell, because he is a non-believer. If a Christian rebels against God and commits this sin, and God judges him, and he dies, then he goes to Heaven because he is a believer.

That which determines your eternal destiny is faith in Christ or rejection of Christ.

That which will bring for certain a judgement from God, will be the unpardonable sin of attributing to Satan, the work of the Holy Spirit.

Quantrill

 

So, how does one "maintain" the relationship with the Holy Spirit so this doens't happen?

 

Again, just because someone died under the law doesn't mean they went to hell. No one was ever saved by keeping the law. All broke the law. Did all go to hell? No.

Those who despised the law of Moses by breaking it were not showed Mercy. And to those under grace, the Christians, who show despite to that grace which they are under, there is the possibility of greater judgement. And just like those that died under the law didn't mean they went to hell, unless they were unbelievers, so when the Christian comes under this judgement it doesn't mean he loses his slavation.

Remember, 10:31....The Lord shall judge his people.

They are 'His people'.

Quantrill

 

As a born-again Christian, you have the Holy Spirit. You have the Bible, the Word of God to read and nourish your spirit. You have prayer wherby you can communicate with God and Christ. You have Jesus Christ your advocate where you confess your sins and He forgives your sins. You have the Church where you meet and fellowship with other Christians who also have that same Holy Spirit. And the Spirit of God in them will minister to you, just as the Spirit of God in you will minsiter to them also.

Maintain these, and you simply walk in the Spirit.

Quantrill

 

Okay then...

I was born Protestant. Grew up in the church. In high school lost my way in rebellion and urinated on a church wild drunk and told God exactly what was on my mind. I then started to go into finding if there was a Heaven and a Hell and doing Juigie boards (sp?) and going into the dark side of the Force. Joined the Marines and the MADE ME a Catholic Lay reader. After that in my quest for the truth I studies other religions and then it happened. I got a visit from "evil" and it was horrific. A friend of mine was doing the same thing and saw.. well something... He was NEVER in the church and he became a Pastor due to what he saw. He called me and I had mine.

I got saved soon after, but I have NEVER lived the life of a Christian, as you describe as an adult. All I have done is still try to find the truth and ask questions. I even have doubts about Jesus Christ!

So... Do I have a free pass to Heaven? I've been saved...

 

It is not exactly a 'free pass' but it is a pass. Read this parable:
"Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]. "

Read that entire chapter, as the context of the chapter shows in parable form what to expect as a 'servant' of the Lord Jesus.

 

Herein lies your problem. You have to read and understand the whole NT, so that you can understand what believe means. Please point me to where in the Bible it says that Satan confessed that Jesus was Lord.

Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

Everyone commits sins, even after they have received salvation by accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior. What is being said is that some who claim they have believed and accepted Jesus as their Lord, later change their mind and claim they don't believe. If they were true believers they would never change their mind, if they weren't, they were never saved to begin with. People may lose their mind (through no fault of their own by illness, or sometimes through sin, like by using drugs), and may claim they don't believe when they once were sincere and in their right mind had accepted Jesus. Those will not lose their salvation. They will have to give account as to why they sinned, but they will not lose their salvation.

Yes, but when you claim Jesus as your Lord, you are now submitting to His will, not yours. It is under "our will" that we commit sin, not when we are submitting to God's will. People who continue to do things under their will have not fully surrendered to Jesus. New Christians are more prone to do that, because as you mature in Christ, you walk closer to Him and try to be under His will at all times.

That only shows that you can have all the right training, go to church, and be charitable, it still doesn't mean you are a true follower of Christ. The fruit of the Spirit is evident in a Christian that is walking with Jesus, and doing crimes are not one of the fruits mentioned in the Bible.

The grace that Christians live under is not their's, it is God's grace. And God never loses His grace. You lose closeness/relationship with God when you sin, and you confess and repent to regain that closeness, but you don't lose your salvation.

 

To be saved one believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and comes to Him as their Lord and Saviour. You can determine your condition based on this and other Scriptures.

The term 'free pass' sounds so 'cheap'. Free for you, Jesus wasn't so lucky.

Quantrill

 

Dont fall into this trap as being faithless and unstable (in all your ways):

James 1:6-8:

6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8 being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

 

So, what does the Catholic Church use as their source of information about Jesus and God? The Pope?

 

I also know a joke:

Q: How do you describe a schizophrenic Zen Buddhist?
A: A man who is at two with the universe

http://youtu.be/IPMnMmnZ2Zc

 

Does ANYONE who believes that Jesus existed end up in Hell?

 

I have read the whole NT a couple of times--in order, and jumping around. I am not without knowledge of what says and how it's put together. I am curious...have YOU actually read through the whole thing? Straight through?

Tghis is why I wonder if you have read all of even Romans in a linear fashion. In Chapter 11, Paul comes to the point.


[20] That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe.
[21] For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
[22] Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

See..."you too [can] be cut off." How much more clear can it be????

 

BTW--to ALL...

I think this is a very productive and interesting conversation. I want to thank you all for being assertive, yet not rude, and for being willing to continue in an intellectual and impassioned manner. I am greatly enjoying crossing swords in this way. Thanks!

 

I sthat part of why Luther wanted to get rid of the book of James? I wonder. He was certainly "tossed by the wind" of unstable beliefs in his life.

 

Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the teaching authority of the Church as guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of Faith and morals. It is like a 3-legged stool. Remove one, and the whole thing becomes unstable.