CNN Medical Analyst Admits After Two Years There's Been 'Overcounting' of COVID Deaths

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by XXJefferson#51, Jan 14, 2023.

  1. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    China is probably the most authoritarian, regressive governmant to try and control a virus from doing what virus's do and how's that working out for them?

    Like 90 percent of their ****ing population caught it all at once because they didn't build up a natural immunity to the stupid thing. So all they did was kick the can down the road. That's all.

    All of this hoopla was not worth destroying the global economy.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  2. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not an old boomer. So I am not there yet. LOL
     
  3. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah. I guess Biden missed the pandemic playbook section in the Constitution. Would you be a doll and link that section for us to peruse please?
     
  4. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Common sense 101.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  5. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    54,642
    Likes Received:
    41,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One thing I have learned in all my time, everyone is always an OLD something to someone younger. So your "Yet" started at birth :)
     
  6. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    54,642
    Likes Received:
    41,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OH :shock: :wall:
     
  7. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Common sense? Coming from the past administration? LMAO
     
  8. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh you mean an administration that realized that the more you try and force a vaccine on a population the more push back you are going to get?
     
  9. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who was forced to receive a vaccine by the Government?
     
  10. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your telling me there wasn't privledges that came to getting vaccined? Travel? Mandetory lock downs. Can't work. Can't go shopping. Everywhere you were required to show your stupid vaccine was pressure socially or directly from the governement. OF WHICH THE GOVERNMENT DID NOT PUSH BACK ON.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_mandates_in_the_United_States
    Federal mandates
    Main article: Biden Administration COVID-19 action plan
    In September 2021, Biden announced the Biden Administration COVID-19 action plan, a six-point plan of new measures to help control the pandemic, which included new executive orders and regulatory actions to effectively mandate vaccination for COVID-19 among a large swath of the American workforce. Executive orders were announced directing all federal agencies to mandate the vaccination of their employees (with exceptions as required by law, and no option for regular testing in lieu of vaccination)[31] per guidance to be developed by the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force, and all future government contracts to include a clause requiring compliance with guidance to be developed by the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force (likely to include a similar mandate).[31] The administration set a November 22, 2021 deadline for most federal employees to be fully vaccinated and a January 4, 2022 deadline for federal contractors to be vaccinated.[32]

    In September 2021, the employees of all federally-funded Medicaid and Medicare-certified health care facilities, and Head Start program facilities, were required to be vaccinated, as ordered through the United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).[33][34][31] Companies with more than 100 employees could either require vaccination for all (and give their workers four hours' paid time off for their vaccination appointments); or require any unvaccinated employees to wear masks and be tested weekly for COVID-19, according to an Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) Emergency Temporary Standard.[35][36] These two policies together —federally-funded healthcare facilities and large companies— would apply to 100 million workers and were scheduled to take effect on January 4, 2022.[32]

    By September 2021, many Republicans asserted Biden's order was an unconstitutional overreach of federal authority, and some Republican governors said they would sue to block it.[37] Despite the network being specifically cited by Biden during his speech as a major employer with vaccine requirements, Fox News pundits criticized Biden; Sean Hannity described Biden as having "cancelled all medical freedom".[38][39] The next day, Biden responded to the threats, stating "Have at it. Look, I am so disappointed that, particularly some of the Republican governors have been so cavalier with the health of these kids, so cavalier with the health of their communities. We're playing for real here, this isn't a game, and I don't know of any scientist out there in this field that doesn't think it makes considerable sense to do the six things I've suggested."[40]

    In November 2021, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals stayed the mandate and ordered OSHA take no steps to implement or enforce the Emergency Temporary Standard.[41] The United States Supreme Court took up emergencies requests to determine if both the OSHA and healthcare facilities mandates can be enforced while litigation continued at lower courts, with oral arguments for both cases held on January 7, 2022.[42]

    On January 13, 2022, the Supreme Court ruled in National Federation of Independent Business v. Occupational Safety and Health Administration that OSHA did not have the authority to enforce the mandate to private companies while ruling in favor of the mandate for healthcare workers in Biden v. Missouri.[43] In the OSHA case, the court issued a per curiam decision that stated that OSHA's mandate exceeded their congressional authority that only covered workplace hazards and not broad public ones, and that it should be left to Congress and the states to determine the response to pandemics like COVID-19. A dissenting minority opinion from Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan states that OSHA is the best agency to determine how to protect workers and that courts should not impede OSHA's actions on occupational safety related to COVID-19.[44] In the healthcare workers' mandate, the per curiam opinion found that this fell within the congressional authority given to the HHS in the use of Medicare and Medicaid funds as to further protect the patients they deal with, and vacated the stay on this mandate ordered by the Eighth Circuit. Both Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito wrote dissenting opinions, each joined by Justices Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett. Both opinions stated that the mandate was too broad to likely apply to the limited congressional authority that HHS was given.[44] On January 25, 2022, the White House officially withdrew the mandate after its defeat in the Supreme Court to focus on other options that may stand a better chance of surviving appeals.[45]


    You can't force anything on our population. Left or right, the more you try the more you will get push back. You turned it into something political and probably had an end result that less people went and got the vaccine that would have otherwise. LOL. And in the end, you didn't save anyone from anything, all you did was cause anger, divide, fear and destroyed the economy to boot!

    So I hope lessons were learned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
  11. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the Government didn't force any citizen to receive the vaccine. I just want to make sure you agree with that.

    Lastly, I caused anger? Did I force you or anyone else to receive a vaccine?
     
  12. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "mandate vaccination for COVID-19 among a large swath of the American workforce."

    mandate
    1 of 2
    noun
    man·date ˈman-ˌdāt

    1
    : an authoritative command
    especially : a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one
    2
    : an authorization to act given to a representative
    accepted the mandate of the people
    3
    a
    : an order or commission granted by the League of Nations to a member nation for the establishment of a responsible government over a former German colony or other conquered territory
    b
    : a mandated territory

    No. I do not agree with your hot take.
     
  13. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Did the US Government mandate all citizens to receive a vaccine? Yes or no will suffice.
     
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    82,126
    Likes Received:
    21,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Then report them.
    If they did that, they committed fraud. That's illegal.
     
  15. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I do not have to prove that claim. The claim I made was that government as well as private companies mandated the vaccine. Of which I've proven.

    They also did not discourage against private companies to mandate the vaccine.

    There were real punishments should you not want to get the vaccine. Both in the private and public sector. So no. I do not agree with your attempt to try and play semantics or shrug this **** off.

    I hope lessons were learned here.
     
  16. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah, so you are a red that believes corporations do not have rights. Well, glad you can admit that.
     
  17. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Corporations absolutely do have rights. However the government can and do lean in on human rights being infrindged upon, but in this case your governement was all in. Since their authoritarian mandates with the vaccine was inline with the government you chose to elect's authoritarian mandates with the vaccine.
     
  18. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    26,320
    Likes Received:
    23,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You got a lot of the key words in you hear from Hannity, Levin and company. Great job! I would have thrown in a deep state and perhaps woke in there for good measure though.

    So let me ask you another question, is my company I work for infringing upon my rights when they tell me that I can not speak badly about the company to the press or social media?

    Are you in favor of corporations setting their own mandates for employment, or do you want big govt to step in and tell corporations how they must set their terms for employment?
     
  19. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think since I've already proven that government mandated the vaccine for government employees per Biden's bill...you are desperately trying to pivot the conversation to private companies rights. Trying to use conservative talking points against me.

    Lol

    This convo was dead in the water for you once I did that. Which explains the pivot.

    The answer is that I don't care about private companies mandating anything. And more care that your government went full authoritarian and certainly didn't speak out against such mandates or promote personal choice or freedoms.

    Because authoritarian.

    So I sincerely hope lessons were learned here. The lockdowns the masks the forced vaccines...it was all bullshit. You helped nothing and made the situation much worse for years to come
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  20. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    3,541
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In reference to the above-mentioned huge spike of heart disease deaths that occurred in 2020, what could be the main reasons?

    IMO…..

    1. Inaccessible care due to overwhelmed hospitals.

    2. Cancelling/postponing/delaying elective surgeries/record high waiting list.

    3. Record high wait times for EMS/overwhelmed emergency departments.

    Anticipated response from Republicans; Physical inactivity, stress, depressions, excessive alcohol and drugs consumptions due to the lockdowns and stay-home orders.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  21. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14,228
    Likes Received:
    10,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I can't say about other people's experiences during the lock down, but my brother went through cancer treatment which included surgeries.

    He had zero wait and his floor was practically empty. Because that was a different level or section of the hospital that had nothing to do with covid. I'd suspect that heart treatment or surgeries was likely the same thing.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many people put off important care because everyone was terrified about going to the hospital though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    41,057
    Likes Received:
    15,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It didn't. The overcounting occurred at the hospitals because they counted all those testing positive as a covid death regardless of the actual cause of death. No autopsies. The administration merely counted death certificates.
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    158,436
    Likes Received:
    68,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the reality is, if you were admitted to the hospital for anything and had covid, that was most likely gonna play into your outcome

    I do not fault the Trump admin though, this was a Pandemic, we needed numbers fast, not waiting for the backlog of bodies to be autopsied - the numbers gave us a view into what was happening, which was the goal
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  24. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    7,880
    Likes Received:
    7,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    dr fauci never said that. the vaccines were never 100% effective. i don't think any vaccine is.

    and. models can be wrong and still extremely useful. newron's laws of motion, for example, are close enough to land on mars. .

    what a wonderful idea! lets privatize the response to global pandemics to a local for profit hospital inc.

    the way to not politicize this function is to elect non=trump people who understand that public health is an important function of government that is not all about your next election.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    158,436
    Likes Received:
    68,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    many countries require vaccines to travel there, no one forces anyone to go there
     

Share This Page