Coronavirus Vaccines Don't Seem To Stop Delta

I wish you would quit with the bullshit. I totally agree with you. I don't need your damn graphs and charts to convince me of something that I already agree with you on.

BUT the Biden administration, the lefty media, and the left are all lying to us about the facts. They are not telling us what you are posting, they are lying to us. They told us that if enough of the population got vaccinated, the virus would go away. They're still telling us that. They are also telling us that the rise in cases is the fault of the unvaccinated when, in reality, even if 100% of us were vaccinated, Delta cases would still be rising. Hell, Biden even refused to talk about the number of cases in his administration and in Pelosi's office who were fully vaccinated and Delta is swarming through them. They don't want to tell us the truth that even if 100% were vaccinated Delta would still be spreading and they don't want to tell us the truth that the spread of Delta has nothing to do with the unvaccinated. So, please don't post any more of your crap that I already agree with you on. My point is that we are getting lied to and they are spreading lies to get people vaccinated because they fear if they told the truth people would not want to get vaccinated. Delta is actually spreading more from the vaccinated than by the unvaccinated because there are many more who are vaccinated.

 

Its a weird attitude. He'd probably call the fire department liars too if someone dies in a fire: "You said a fire alarm would save their life!!! LIARS, LIARS!!!!!".

Whining for the sake of whining.

Awwww......there you have it. The mystery motivation has been revealed. Its about poor Donald Trump again. I should have known.

The mind of a Trump apologist is a mysterious place.

Its the truth because......you say so, or do you have some proof to back it up? I guess you didn't know that international travelers need proof of negative test. You just make stuff up and end up being guilty of the very thing you accuse everyone else of (lying).

 

It will it is just with the Delta variant that level will need to be higher. We are playing a numbers game here but it does not need theories

you can see it plain and simple from maps

 

Florida hospitalizations have broken records 3 days in a row now. Scheduled surgeries and other treatments are taking a back-seat while the unvaccinated fill the beds.

 

Why do you keep on posting me pure crap that has nothing to do with what I'm saying?

 

I'm not attempting to speak for @Bowerbird but I don't get the impression that she missed your point. We all get it. They lied to us. Now, we have to accept that, figure out a game plan and move on. What do you propose?

 

Trump was right all along. The virus is what it is. We just have to learn how to live with it.

As many as possible should get vaccinated though because it does lesson the severity of the disease but we shouldn't be harassing, discriminating, and taking the rights away of people who don't want to be vaccinated. With Delta, it doesn't really matter as the virus spreads even through the vaccinated. Getting vaccinated does not stop the spread. And, we shouldn't lie to people to encourage them to be vaccinated.

Meanwhile, medical experts should be working more on newer vaccines and treatment strategies, just as they were doing under Trump.

Mask mandates were proven not to work as cases continued to rise through every mask mandate there was until the vaccine came out. But, with Delta, the virus spreads even if you are vaccinated.

I think even most liberals have also decided that Trump was right again in that the destruction of the economy is just not a fair price to pay to combat the virus.

The virus was what it was under Trump and is what it is under Biden.




I don't understand people who are so very obsessed with posting graphs and charts that have nothing to do with what we were talking about. You can't prove your case or win a debate when you are posting proof of something that we weren't even talking about. I could post proof that today is a sunny day. So what? It would have nothing to do with what we are talking about.

 

I differentiate between the "virus is going to run its course" and Trump saying he "takes no responsibility".

You are partially correct. Delta can breakthrough in vaccinated people but so can the others.

Do you have any reason or information to think this is NOT happening?

The vaccine does not STOP ANY of the strains. It never has and it was never sold as a panacea.

When you get some time, check out the sub-forum for COVID. @CenterField and @557 have been holding down the fort over there since the virus touched our shores. At no time did either of them sell the vaccine as a cure-all.

You are looking at that in retrospect. At the time Trump made that decision, it was correct for what we were facing. I believe he tried but failed at finding an effective balance between keeping the country running and people safe while waiting for the vaccines to hit the market.

As is everything else.

If I may, it sounds like you are a bit annoyed by that those posts. I understand why but I don't believe the purpose is malicious or even an attempt at deflection. You will find plenty of graphs and charts if you search those members' posting history. It's just the way she contributes to these discussions. We all have our own style. With the exception of about 8-10 posters (lost causes) most participants here are polite and just want to converse about these matters and offer help when they can. I tend to lean more toward giving others the benefit of the doubt until I have a reason that should stop.

 

When did Trump start "being right all along"? Elaborate.

 

I don't obsess over things Trump says. He's not a great orator. All I care about is the bottom line. Does Biden take any responsibility, or does he just blame everything on the unvaccinated? Right now he is attacking Florida and Texas for being unvaccinated, as if they were vaccinated, Delta would be gone. How about the truth that if 100% were vaccinated, Delta would still be spreading. And yet he and the left blame the unvaccinated for the spread.

The vaccines WERE sold as they would stop strains. They are still being sold that way. Even as we speak the left are selling the vaccine as a way to get rid of the virus and that it is the unvaccinated's fault that Delta is spreading.

I have little patience for those who are obsessed with posting graphs and charts that have nothing to do with the discussion. I had already warned her that I agree with her graphs and charts and to please not post any more similar ones because they have nothing to do with what I was saying and then she turned right around and did it yet again. These kind of people are so obsessed with graphs and charts that they can't debate what the hell we were even talking about. As I said, we could be having a debate about the virus and I could post proof that today is a sunny day and that you agree with me but we were talking about something else, not the weather. These people are so stuck to their trained agenda they want to push they can't hear anything else. They are completely deaf to everything but their own agenda.

Then there is another segment of posters who actually post charts and graphs relative to the discussion but they make sure they post cherry picked graphs and charts. For instance, I can post cherry picked facts and charts showing how much Obamacare sucks while someone else posts back their cherry picked facts and charts showing otherwise. Same thing with Climate change and every other hot button issues. As a rule I don't post cherry picked graphs and charts because both sides can find facts that prove their case. Leftists often say that fact are facts and there is only one set of facts that are true but they somehow only use THEIR facts and ignore facts from the other side because only their facts are the correct facts.

 

I'm not sure where you've been but I'm assuming you've been on the planet at least 20 years or so. Can you point me in the direction where ANY politician tells the truth? I must have missed those memos.

In the meantime, there is a simple solution to this problem. Turn your tv off.

I'm not sure why you are listening to the left or right for information on viruses and their variants. Beyond that, the blame game doesn't contribute anything.

@Bowerbird is firmly planted in her beliefs but so am I and so are you. Here's the thing...all of us view the world through our own lens. We all do so try to keep in mind that whatever her life journey has been - she reached certain conclusions and stands behind them. I also get the impression she's reasonable so I'm sure she's noted that you don't like her charts and graphs. Of course, it's her decision if she stops posting them in response to you but I'm certain she now knows it annoys you.

Yep. We all do it. It's part of the human condition.

 

Who are you to tell or "warn" anyone about what they should or shouldn't post.

I wish she (and others) would post more graphs to illustrate the issues.

My teacher used to say "Facts and figures my friends, - facts and figures". Obviously your teacher did not teach that, because you actually take offense when facts are presented, and you call personal opinion "the truth".

Some people.......

 

Viruses mutate, like the Delta version. Theoretically, if we reach herd immunity worldwide before the next deadly mutation we can eliminate it. In the interim, we simply slow the spread until a cure or herd immunity.

 

LOL, what makes you think that we are NOT working on new vaccines and on updating the vaccines and seeking new treatments? We are, and this hasn't changed just because the POTUS changed. FYI, we are an INTERNATIONAL scientific community and there are 210 countries in the world. It is not an election in ONE country that stops R&D. Trump's Warp Speed Initiative was a good thing but parallel to that, other countries continued to develop their own vaccines too, entirely independently of WSI, such as India, China, Russia, and Brazil. Actually the two vaccines that first came to the market, the Sputnik V and the Pfizer/BioNTech, had R&D completely independent from the WSI. Of the 6 vaccines that were part of the WSI, 3 got to the market, one failed and got withdrawn, and two are delayed and not in the market (likely never will be). So 3 of them got in. The world has some 12 others, which had nothing to do with the WSI. There are abundant details about this in my thread The State of the Vaccines if you want more information.

Research on Covid-19, its vaccines and its treatment, remains just as robust as when Trump was the POTUS.

You imply that vaccines are useless to stop the Delta. Not so. The rate of infection with Delta remains higher in counties with lower vaccination rates. While Delta is more likely to infect the vaccinated than Alpha was, these breakthrough infections are still only happening in a fraction of the vaccinated. The media highlights every incidence with big and hysterical headlines... almost never putting this into perspective with the TOTAL number of vaccinated people, and the incidence among the natural control group, the unvaccinated (which is way bigger).

So you get "OMG 112 PEOPLE IN THIS STATE WHO WERE FULLY VACCINATED GOT THE INFECTION!!!!" What they fail to say is that 10 million people in that state who were fully vaccinated DID NOT!!!"

This phenomenon has been common in journalism, forever and ever. It's what sells print copies and gets clicks on electronic copies.

You see headlines such as "MAN IN TEXAS GOT SALMONELLA POISONING FROM LETTUCE HE BOUGHT IN A GROCERY STORE." You don't get headlines such as "Mr. and Mrs. Smith together with Mr. and Mrs. Jones bought lettuce in a grocery store and made a delicious salad; they are alive and well."

There are ways and ways to present data. You get, recent example, "74% of the people who got Covid-19 from a beach party in Massachusetts were vaccinated." What they don't tell you is that of those, only 4 needed hospitalization, and neither one died, and they also don't tell you about the MILLIONS of vaccinated people in Massachusetts who did NOT get Covid-19 despite the Delta at this point being the predominant strain over there. So, those 74% of people, presented this way, make it look like the vaccine is useless... but what about them being 0.001% of the vaccinated people, and the rate of death among them being 0%??? Oh, that doesn't sell newspaper, right? So let's go with the bombastic 74%!!! All that this figure says, is that there was a particularly strong superspreader event during a local event there, and the people who attended happened to be in majority, vaccinated, and some did get infected. Some LOCAL intervening factor likely accounted for the stronger contagion. It doesn't tell you anything about the rate of protection nationwide, or even in the State of Massachusetts, because these numbers aren't been seen elsewhere.

No, the vaccines work. It's just that there are too many contrary winds trying to make it sound like they don't.

 

Even though I am an independent who has consistently voted different parties for years I lean right and since most of the left has fallen off the end of the Earth, I appear to be an ass licking Trump supporter who watches Fox News 24/7 to them. Hence, I am more than a little pissed off that they complained nonstop for four years about all of Trump's lies (many were exaggerated, taken out of text, or just plain lies themselves) but now it is OK for Biden and lefty politicians to lie just because, well, all politicians lie. Over the last four years all I heard was that only Trump lies. Yes, all politicians lie. Biden attacked Trump during the campaign for not telling Americans the truth about Covid and looked us all in the eye and vowed he would always tell Americans the truth about Covid and yet, here we are with his lies or not being forthcoming.

I'm actually fine with Bowerbird if she posts graphs or charts that are relevant to what we were actually talking about but two things:

1. it's kind of insulting for someone to post graphs or charts to me as if I'm not smart enough to already know their side of the story and have seen the same graphs or charts numerous times already. None of their "facts" are new to me.

2. If I'm talking "X" and someone posts proofs of "Y" then it is like they are totally ignoring what I said and that they are so preprogrammed to talk about "Y" that it totally went past them that I was talking about "X".

By the way, I must say that I enjoy posting with you. Even though I'm sure we disagree on a few things you seem very level headed and have avoided being infected with TDS. It's ok to agree to disagree as long as the parties are level headed. Most people don't agree on everything. It's people like you that I had hoped to post back and forth with on here as posting with the extremes is basically a waste of time.

 

I was talking "X" and she posted facts about "Y" and I asked her to please not post any more "facts" about something we weren't even talking about. If I wanted to talk about "Y" then I would be talking about "Y". If she doesn't want to respond to what I wrote then she should just not respond to what a I wrote. I don't understand the point of it. Who are you to tell me what I should post or not?

 

Hey buddy. Go grab some decaf. You're going to stroke out if you let these people work you up like that. Humans are weird. We do dumb stuff. Chill.

Signed,
A friend in Chicago

 

That's a bunch of bullshit for a number of reasons. This is exactly what I have been talking about. The left are blaming the unvaccinated for the current rise in Delta cases, even though it is the vaccinated who are spreading Delta more than the unvaccinated are. The vaccines don't stop Delta from spreading. Even vaccinated people are spreading it and there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated. Therefore, the unvaccinated have absolutely nothing to do with the rise in Delta cases. Second, if the left are claiming that there would be no such thing as Delta if everyone were vaccinated is also a bunch of bullshit for a number of reasons.

1. Delta came from India. If 100% of all Americans had been vaccinated before Delta arrived, it would still be here because the vaccines don't stop the spread of the Delta variant. Variants can come from anywhere. There are many third world countries where variants can spring up.

2. It is virtually impossible to vaccinate the entire world all in one day, so, there are always bound to be variants while vaccines progress, assuming that 100% of the world would eventually get vaccinated.

3. It is unrealistic to think that every person in every country will get vaccinated. Ain't gonna happin, no way, no how.

4. The vaccines themselves can cause variants to happen

5. The world is globalized and most countries are free, both of which contribute to the spread of the virus

I'm sure I missed several others.

 

Some anti-maskers / vaxxers are having second thoughts. He is right. It is wrong for governors to impose their will on the whole State and make it hard to take measures. Let the corporations and locals decide how they want to handle it.

Arkansas governor says he regrets banning mask mandates as COVID-19 cases surge in his state: 'Everything has changed now'
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...rything-has-changed-now/ar-AAMWfJu?li=BBnb7Kz

• 
  
  
  • Gov. Asa Hutchinson wants to reverse a ban on mask mandates that he approved just four months ago.
  • He said he regrets signing the law and has called for a special session to amend it.
  • "Everything has changed now," the Arkansas governor said.
  • See more stories on Insider's business page.

Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson wants to reverse a ban on mask mandates that he enacted just a few months ago.

The Republican was asked at a press conference Tuesday why he signed the ban. He replied, “Our cases were at a low point. Everything has changed now, and yes, in hindsight, I wish that had not become law, but it is the law, and the only chance we have is either to amend it or for the courts to say that it has an unconstitutional foundation.”

"The local school districts should make the call, and they should have more options to make sure that their school is a safe environment during a very challenging time for education,” Hutchinson said at the press conference.

 

The mask mandates never slowed the virus.

 

It should be enough if we vaccinate most in US. Even if people carry it, it won't matter if people dont get sick from it. As a matter of fact, when we carry it and dont get sick, or bodies get better and better at fighting it.

 

You made a long post which mostly agreed with most of what I wrote. I'll try to point out the things I disagree with you on.

1. Delta cases are surging, even among the vaccinated. Not only are there a whole, whole lot of breakthrough cases, but virtually every vaccinated person, if exposed, will more than likely expose others, including the vaccinated, who will then spread it everywhere to both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. The vaccine does not change that. All the vaccine seems to be able to do with Delta is to allow for less severe symptoms if you contract the virus, but it is spread very easily, even by everyone who is vaccinated. It is disingenuous and false to claim that it is the unvaccinated spreading Delta.

Once again, I want to say that I agree with 95% of what you posted so I'm a little confused as to why your post implied differently.

 

Sorry, you lost me at "the left". To politicize the virus is not relevant to the virus and it trying to survive/evolve.

 

LOL. The left have been politicizing the virus from day one and continue to today.

 

For me, the pandemic is a medical problem. I have never and would never make my medical decisions based on what is said or not said from the Oval Office. I can't really conceptualize why anyone would but I acknowledge that some do.

Did you consider pm'ing her and letting her know how strongly you feel about this issue? She may be receptive of that. I have no control over what she does but understand you are offended by it. Just talk to her. She doesn't bite.

Thank you. I enjoy posting here with most people. I'm no different in real life - I try to find some workable middle ground to bring opposing teams together. I can't say that it's always worked but I try. I don't believe there is any pathway to healing if we don't try to communicate calmly and specifically. It has always baffled me that we call ourselves "civilized" and most of us can't go a full day without unleashing on somebody. I lucked out in that department. I'm so darn tired that I don't have the energy to fight. LOL I have two kids that kick my backside all the time. Are they wiser? No. But they are younger, have more energy and outnumber me.