COVID-19 Research, Drug trials and Pathophysiology

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Bowerbird, Apr 13, 2020.

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  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The story is still being told. I make no judgment.
    ". . . But the experiment didn’t end there. During the year that followed, the virus continued to ravage the world and, one by one, the death tolls in countries that had locked down began to surpass Sweden’s. Britain, the US, France, Poland, Portugal, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Spain, Argentina, Belgium — countries that had variously shut down playgrounds, forced their children to wear facemasks, closed schools, fined citizens for hanging out on the beach and guarded parks with drones — have all been hit worse than Sweden. At the time of writing, more than 50 countries have a higher death rate. If you measure excess mortality for the whole of 2020, Sweden (according to Eurostat) will end up in 21st place out of 31 European countries. If Sweden was a part of the US, its death rate would rank number 43 of the 50 states. . . ."
     
  2. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Again for the hard of learning. Compare like with like.
     
  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Meh. The tale is not yet fully told. I have no dog in the fight, but I'm always intrigued by challenges to conventional wisdom.
     
  4. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, Sweden did better than messy countries with a ton of intervening factors that do not exist in Sweden... but did worse than the 3 neighboring countries that are just like Sweden in most regards. Can't you understand this? Compare oranges to oranges... and you'll see that the rotten orange is Sweden. But of course, if you compare Sweden to Argentina, Sweden will come on top.
     
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  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then perhaps the Swedes made a thoroughly rational choice that they could afford a more relaxed approach. Or not, as I said, I have no dog in the fight. My point, speaking as a historian, is that the perspective to judge these approaches is still years away.
     
  6. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    But made no attempt to tell both sides of the story. Just more cut and paste
     
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  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    If I think they might have merit, I post the viewpoints that have been less represented in the discussion.
     
  8. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Fair comment.
     
  9. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not really years away. We already have the figures of death per 100,000 inhabitants for this pandemic, and given that Sweden's administration's stupid decisions resulted in many more deaths than what happened for their neighbors, we already know that the blood of the dead taints the hands of Sweden's administrators. Even if in the future subsequent waves of Covid-19 were to equalize things, these dead people still died earlier, robbing their families of enjoying their company for longer. There is no way to look into this without noticing that death rates in Sweden were unnecessarily high as compared to the very similar neighboring countries.
     
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  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    We'll disagree. I suspect we're still years from the end of this pandemic, and it may turn out (or not) that Sweden's early higher death rate may produce an earlier and more durable flattening of the impact at a minimal level.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
  11. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, but like I said, it will still be true that people died earlier in Sweden, if that's the case. It's still years robbed of their lives with their families.
    Also, given Covid-19's ability to re-infect people and the non-durable immunity, what you are saying is not very likely to happen, anyway.
    But even if it does, dead is dead. The dead Swedes are not coming back to life. If in 3 years people in neighboring countries die too and the rates end up matching each other, still, these Swedes died 3 years earlier than their counterparts in neighboring countries. There is no way not to notice that Sweden did worse than their neighbors. It's a fact.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
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  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    We shall see. Delayed deaths would need to be weighed against diminished quality of life to achieve the delay.
     
  13. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Playing devils advocate. Were we to find Swedes had better natural immunity to Covid because of their exposure (that cost many extra lives) would it be possible to argue that over time this decreased their morbidity into the future compared to countries that took isolated people and relied on the vaccine for immunity.
    PS. I think I know the answer, but thought I'd raise the question for others to see.
     
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  14. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think so. The latest studies have been showing the opposite of what was briefly touted by an Israeli study (which had many flaws, by the way). Vaccine immunity is better than natural immunity. So why would Sweden be better off because they got more infected people? Also, I've been mentioning the toll the virus takes in several organs, with studies showing more than 50% of survivors having at least one major organ that has been damaged by the virus. So if anything, Sweden is likely to face more morbidity in their population in the several years to come, than their neighbors who isolated more, vaccinated more, and had fewer people infected by the virus.
     
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  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    We have all paid a terrible price for bad journalism.
    The Lab Leak Fiasco

    Ashley Rindsberg, Tablet Magazine

    ". . . This question is at the core of what might be one of the greatest journalistic scandals of our generation. That there appears to be no accountability, self-reflection, or Iraq-WMD-style reckoning on the horizon only compounds the problem. If and when it does, we are likely to conclude that the false narrative around the pandemic’s origins represented a tipping point—a comprehensive failure in journalistic quality and mores in a time of national emergency, caused in large part by an overconcentration of corporate power in media, decades of economic and technological turbulence, and a disturbingly supine approach to an authoritarian hegemon. We might also discover that public trust in an institution essential to democracy was damaged beyond repair."
     
  16. Eadora

    Eadora Well-Known Member

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  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To get back to the topic.

    The German chemist Dr Andreas Noack died mysteriously after putting out a video saying that mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 contain graphene hydroxide. This is a particularly dangerous substance.

    According to his partner, he was attacked by strangers on Nov. 23, but the authenticity of the woman's testimony cannot be substantiated, since the only information given is that he died from breathing problems on Nov. 26.

    All the videos can be seen here. He does mention his credentials and said that he is the top in his field. There are English subtitles:

    https://twitter.com/Marlenvonisny/s...ermanos-dr-andreas-noack-eihe-milisei-gia-tin

     
  20. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  21. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It looks like Omicron may save us all.... mild, no hospitalizations or deaths.

    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/epidemiological-update-omicron-data-8-december

    Cases have been reported by 21 countries in the EU/EEA: Austria (15), Belgium (14), Croatia (3), Czechia (2), Denmark (83), Estonia (6), Finland (9), France (32), Germany (15), Greece (3), Iceland (12), Ireland (1), Italy (11), Latvia (2), Liechtenstein (1), the Netherlands (36), Norway (29), Portugal (34), Romania (2), Spain (11), and Sweden (13) according to information from public sources. Two new EU/EEA countries (Estonia and Liechtenstein) has reported the Omicron variant and a number of probable cases are currently under investigation in several countries…

    All cases for which there is available information on severity were either asymptomatic or mild. No deaths have been reported among these cases so far.
     
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  22. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    All the cases in Europe have been found in relatively young people so far. Should know more in the next few weeks as transmission increases. There are reports from South Africa that hospital cases are rising rapidly. Hope that is false data
     
  23. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    More disturbing testimony.
    The Unholy Nexus Impeding the Truth About Covid Origin

    TIPP Insights

    ". . . Meanwhile, Dr. Chan told the Committee that a lab leak is now the most likely origin of the coronavirus pandemic.

    She explained, "We know now that this virus has a very unique feature, called the furin cleavage site that makes it the pandemic pathogen it is. So, without this feature, there's no way this would be causing this pandemic."

    'A proposal was leaked showing that EcoHealth and the Wuhan Institute of Virology were developing a pipeline for inserting novel furin cleavage sites. So, you find these scientists who said in early 2018, 'I'm going to put horns on horses,' and at the end of 2019, a unicorn turns up in Wuhan city.'

    Dr. Chan also implied that the safety of anyone who comes forward with information could be jeopardized. She told the M.P.s, 'I think the lab origin is more likely than not. Right now, it's not safe for people who know about the origin of the pandemic to come forward.'. . . "
     
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    One publisher has taken action.
    Elsevier subjects entire special issue of journal on COVID-19 to an expression of concern
    [​IMG]
    Ronald Kostoff

    Elsevier has subjected an entire special issue of a journal — including a paper claiming COVID-19 vaccines kill five times more people over 65 than they save — to an expression of concern.

    The special issue of Toxicology Reports contained eight articles, including the vaccines paper co-authored by Ronald Kostoff.

    Here’s the expression of concern, which is only linked from Kostoff et al’s vaccine paper:

    Continue reading
     
  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    More interesting background coming to light.
    Why Did Scientists Suppress the Lab-Leak Theory?

    Matt Ridley, Spiked

    ". . . Now we know what those leading scientists really thought. Emails exchanged between them after a conference call on 1 February 2020, and only now forced into the public domain by Republicans in the US Congress, show that they not only thought the virus might have leaked from a lab, but they also went much further in private. They thought the genome sequence of the new virus showed a strong likelihood of having been deliberately manipulated or accidentally mutated in the lab. Yet later they drafted an article for a scientific journal arguing that the suggestion not just of a manipulated virus, but even of an accidental spill, could be confidently dismissed and was a crackpot conspiracy theory. . . . "
     
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