Do liberals care about the debt and deficit?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by FatBack, Jun 1, 2023.

  1. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    w fought 2 wars "off the books." those deficits are chalked to obama. "lowest deficits in the 21st century? not much of a bar.

    my question deals with that "gop supervision." why none of that on reagan, bush, or trump?
     
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  2. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    It will if you have enough left over to redeem the debt, most likely when the bonds come due. It’s all a pipe dream, however, because if either party in congress ever saw a surplus in tax receipts over spending, they would have to blow the money on something. So far there have been few rewards for senators or congressmen who didn’t “bring home the bacon” to their district with more spending.
     
  3. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Reagan? Didn't he have Democrat majorities to deal with? His primary goal was to end the USSR and he acted accordingly. I already addressed Bush II who was successful on deficits until Dems got power.
     
  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Neocons, like Cheney are Democrats once removed. What Reagan showed was that no matter how much revenue you give Democrats they'll still spend more than they have.
     
  5. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    Today Cheney or Bush are “ neocons – Democrats once removed” . Yet 50.4 million conservatives voted for them in 2000 and 62 million voted for them in 2004. I never heard back in 2000 Bush or Cheney was RINO. Every conservative lined up and voted for them.
     
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  6. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    You are talking about the military industrial complex and corporate welfare, yes?
     
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  7. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You heard Bush and Cheney being called neocons nonstop in 2004. It was Democrats leading that chorus.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
  8. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reagans star wars and other military spending tripled the national debt while he was in office.
     
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  9. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    You are right, left called Bush and Cheney neocon and warmonger, I am one of them. But conservative loved Bush and Cheney and re-elected them , but today they are RINO and “ Democrats once removed”.
     
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  10. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Being a neocon was not a bad thing to Republicans at that time. At that time the term really symbolized supporting military agression and maybe even nation building.

    As time went on, and with the benefit of hindsight, Republicans look at Bush and see him as a go along get along guy that hoped being a respectful nice person would be rewarded by the media, and of course it never was. The media destroyed Bush and he never even tried to fight back. Simultaneously, Republicans nominated back to back go along get along type of guys in Mcain and Romney, only to watch them get once again painted as extremists..It became apparent that trying to get the media on their side is a waste of time for Republicans, and the people we used to call neocons are now considered wimps. The entire concept of nominating Romney is that of course who can dislike him? Well, they found a way. Hence that is seen as a losing strategy.

    I agree.
     
  11. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    So the new strategy is not about policy or ideology which make America better but who can fight with media? If that is the strategy then yes, republican party is exactly what you are saying, republican doesn’t have any policy or ideology to make America better but fight with media and left and wimp. How is that working out? Are republicans winning?
     
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  12. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    It does not work that way. Income taxes go to the general fund, which is used to pay most of the discretionary spending we have. And most of our discretionary spending does not drive up the debt unless you want to talk about the DoD budget. Other taxes such as payroll taxes, pay those SS and Medicare payments per the law. And these two programs drive up the debt because we borrow from those funds to pay the general fund and any excess funds left over can only be invested into Treasury bonds.

    Congresspersons try to bring jobs to their district. It's easy if your district has substantial military and government research facilities. Harder if you have a majority of private jobs. With private jobs, it can be created by either having trade incentives or new programs to invest. This is why the GOP members don't want to get rid of all the green energy incentives that do create jobs despite the political rhetoric of oil and gas.
     
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  13. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its about who can succesfully win and thus push forward the Conservative agenda.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
  14. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately the two frontrunners are pushing an populist pseudo-conservative agenda. Rand Paul would push forward conservative agenda, but he has not announced he is running yet.
     
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  15. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    What is the conservative agenda today?
     
  16. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    are they wunnung?
    their platform is to "support the maga agenda of dear leader. "
     
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  17. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok look....a strawmman!

    Thanks, that is just what this conversation needed (sarcasm)
     
  18. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For purposes of this conversation that does not matter.
     
  19. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    You are right – conservative agenda is – It doesn’t matter.

    Good luck finding Americans to support "it doesn't matter" agenda.
     
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  20. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow, that is stupid and pointless.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
  21. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
     
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  22. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which begs the question why then did you post it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
  23. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that republican/ conservative agenda doesn’t exist that is why you wrote “ that doesn’t matter”.

    If conservative had agenda, you would have listed few.
     
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  24. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I should have known.

    Stupid.

    Go aimlessly bicker elsewhere.
     
  25. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think you know what a strawman argument is.

    Are you disagreeing that Rand Paul would push a conservative agenda, or were you trying to say something else?

    Of course it does. These days populists push their own authoritarian agenda and call is 'conservative' when its almost the polar opposite of it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
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