Does the U.S. public get a say in government?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by yangforward, Dec 17, 2022.

  1. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,206
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The public is allowed a choice between two parties that agree on:

    1. The need to be constantly at war
    2. The need for an unbelievably expensive and complex medical system
    3. The need to always have a few percent of the population living on the streets
    4. The need to lie to the public constantly about everything

    There is even a lie to cover up the lack of choice, with a claim that the two parties are too far apart.
     
    gorfias, Moi621 and modernpaladin like this.
  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,206
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1. Would the public agree the nation should bankrupt itself in a war against Russia?

    The public I've encountered mostly think we should keep out of it.

    Yet neither party is of that opinion, nor are the weapons makers {aka defense industry}.
     
    gorfias likes this.
  3. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Our defense budget is 858 billion

    What we've sent to Ukraine is a very miniscule part of that
     
    Natty Bumpo, Nemesis and Dayton3 like this.
  4. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,531
    Likes Received:
    6,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Big deal. Americans wanted to keep out of EVERY war including World War Two (until Pearl Harbor).
     
  5. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    7,101
    Likes Received:
    7,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It reminds me how we got sucked into the Vietnam war. No real reason except “fight them over there before we fight them over here”.
    I forgot why we are in Ukraine except they are a white educated population fighting a group of drunk, drugged, communist cretins.
    I was doom-scrolling Drudge this morning and they say a coup of Putin in imminent. I wonder what crazy bleeper slithers in next.
     
    gorfias likes this.
  6. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,531
    Likes Received:
    6,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We aren't "in Ukraine". We simply provide a relative handful of weapons systems so they can fight the Russians.
     
    bigfella likes this.
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    43,184
    Likes Received:
    15,848
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'd like to think that many Americans have learned from the fraudulently-pretexted fiascos of Vietnam and Iraq, even though the lesson had to be repeated.

    Supporting an aspiring democracy in peril and the democratic allies doing the same is morally and politically justified.

    Abandoning an aspiring democracy would have adverse consequences.
     
    bigfella likes this.
  8. MelshieMaze

    MelshieMaze Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2022
    Messages:
    3,887
    Likes Received:
    1,449
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We're just sending tools and weapons to the people....who live in Ukraine.
     
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,531
    Likes Received:
    6,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What's wrong with that?
     
  10. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    7,101
    Likes Received:
    7,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have been in front of the city counsel and a few other boards, and I can tell you that the camera is on you, but it should be on them. One or two are listening, the rest are checking emails, scribbling, etc.
    You have no power. I know it and they know it. It’s kabuki.
     
  11. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,531
    Likes Received:
    6,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why do you think the U.S. is "constantly at war"? We aren't.
     
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    40,686
    Likes Received:
    15,645
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The government is slowly bankrupting itself whether we fight Putin or not. I prefer the fight. It is more entertaining.
     
  13. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,206
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's why the media generally supports war
     
  14. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    7,101
    Likes Received:
    7,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh, we’re in Ukraine.
     
    yangforward likes this.
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    53,817
    Likes Received:
    24,792
    Trophy Points:
    113

    How is that different from how Vietnam started?
     
  16. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    43,184
    Likes Received:
    15,848
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The pretexts for the Vietnam fiasco and its dogged perpetuation are well-documented.
     
  17. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,206
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Relative to what? We've sent Kyiv more weapons than Russia makes in a year.
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    53,817
    Likes Received:
    24,792
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Right. We were helping an "aspiring democracy" and thought abandoning them would have adverse consequences.
     
  19. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,206
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We were protecting the people of Southern Vietnam against the invaders from Northern Vietnam.

    We had to kill a million of them in the process.

    And they might have been a whole bunch better off if we hadn't been 'protecting' them.
     
    gorfias and Lil Mike like this.
  20. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,206
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We keep going to war to protect countries, it never seems to work out that way.

    It makes me wonder why we keep on doing it?
     
    gorfias likes this.
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,531
    Likes Received:
    6,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Tell us which major units of the U.S. military are deployed there.
     
    Natty Bumpo likes this.
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,531
    Likes Received:
    6,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But Russia possessed a huge backlog of weapons going back several decades.
     
    Natty Bumpo likes this.
  23. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,206
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so did Ukraine. And Ukraine had far more troops than the Russian Special Operation had.
     
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,531
    Likes Received:
    6,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No they didn't. Ukraine had to return huge numbers of the weapons it inherited from the Soviet Union to Russia in exchange for their independence after the Soviet Union dissolved.
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  25. cabse5

    cabse5 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Messages:
    7,217
    Likes Received:
    2,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You are sadly misinformed if you think Ukraine is a democracy. The people in the eastern sections of Ukraine don't think Ukraine is a democracy because Ukraine isn't a democracy in the eastern sections of Ukraine, for example.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2022

Share This Page