Don't Game Honorable Systems

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by modernpaladin, Dec 25, 2024.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can call it whatever you want, as long as the govt doesn't get to confiscate property when people either fall on hard times or opt out of inadequate service.
     
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  2. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    The elected people that make the rules are the same people that make the loopholes to get around the rules they made.
     
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  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And let the guy next door (and everybody in your neighborhood ... and in your city... and probably in your state) pay for the expense of YOUR house burning down?

    Say it! You just want to freeload! Just as I thought. This is a thread about YOU getting the benefits of living in society for FREE. It ain't gonna work, fella!

    Again, if you want to freeload, YOU would need to move somewhere where you don't have the benefit of others having to pay for YOUR mishaps. And the only place I can think of is some isolated island in the Pacific.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fall on hard times, I completely agree. It's called a Social Safety Net. And it's the RIGHT that opposes it. As far as opting out, that you can do right now! There are still thousands of uninhabited islands in the Pacific you can move to. Let's see you put your money where your mouth is.

    But don't think that any government will rescue you for free if at some point in the future Climate Change causes your island to go under water now and then. Because you're not contributing to avoid it. So find an alternative in case that happens and YOU figure out how to carry it out on your own.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  5. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would anyone (but me) have to pay for my house burning down?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't pay for YOUR house burning down. You pay for keeping YOUR house from burning down others.

    I can't BELIEVE I have to explain this to you!

    There is NO way around it when you live in a society. It has costs and inconveniences. But your only alternative to living in a society is to NOT live in a society. It IS binary. And if you choose to not live in a society, it means you shouldn't even BREATHE the air that the rest of us pay the government to keep clean enough for us to not die. An isolated island in the Pacific is the ONLY alternative.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm going to assume you're not deliberately misunderstanding the question and I'll explain in more detail with a scenario:

    Suppose the Fire Dept billed each individual residence for protection services. My neighbors all pay, but I dont. My house catches fire. The FD arrives and protects my neighbors houses from burning down, but not mine. My house burns down.

    How is it, do you suppose, that anyone but me is financially responsible for my burned down house?
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does it add to the value of the property? That is all that matters.
     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No they cannot easily do that, do you know how fast a pine tree goes up in flames? Go do a search using "fire spreads".

    Taking the property itself would be the last resort when there is no other recourse because you have failed to pay the tax on the property. What other recourse would you suggest? Property taxes are like excise taxes, for use. In my state to get rid or property taxes and move to sales tax would require about a 30% increase in sales taxes. And my state has one of the lowest property tax rates in the county ($250K and I pay under $700).
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And who pays for the FD arriving to protect your neighbors house when it's YOUR responsibility that they had to come in the first place? Who pays for the water? Who pays for the roads they needed in order to get there because of YOU?

    I'll tell you who: everybody EXCEPT you: the person who caused the mess in the first place!

    You are explaining yourself perfectly, and it's clear that you just want government services for FREE!

    This is pretty childish. So I'm just leaving it here. You either get it, or you don't. If you DON'T get it, just know you ARE going to have to pay taxes bud! No matter WHAT you say or what temper tantrums you feel like pulling...
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  11. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is way off topic, but the FD can’t let your house burn down while protecting the others. That’s not how it works. Fire doesn’t cooperate in a manner you describe.
     
  12. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some permitting processes at the local level are just plain silly. They can hose you up for months.

    We watched our neighbors add a garage to their home. Of course, everything was permitted, because the government can see it happening so you’d damn well better have one. At every stage of the process, work had to stop for 1-5 days while they waited for someone from government to come along and approve. Blech. It took about six months, but I’m willing to bet a month of it was sitting around waiting for a bureaucrat.

    My brother needed a permit for an addition. This is rational to me. What’s not rational is that he got a particularly snarky bureaucrat who dinged him on things not even in the law, like he didn’t paint in the cubby under the stairs. He had to ask to see the relevant statute. Of course, being none, the small man then decided to go through every little thing, step by step. I don’t remember specifics this many years later, but dude counted nails on drywall under the stairs. It was stupid.

    Some things should be permitted. You shouldn’t be able to dig deep into the earth without knowing what sort of utility lines are buried, there. You should get your wiring checked, because your fire hazard is also your neighbor’s fire hazard. So, I’m not against permitting as a public safety measure.

    If we need something done and the government can’t see it, we absolutely do not permit it. We’ve done this with a kitchen remodel and adding a new staircase. We even braved it out and didn’t permit a dead tree removal, because we didn’t do anything against the law (wrt the trees,) and we figured if they came out, we’d just play dumb, “For a tree? It never crossed our minds to get permission to remove a dead tree from our property!!


    There are also some sillly stupid local rules, one being you must register your cats with the city. When we go to the vet, we keep getting asked if we are registered and if we would like to register. We don’t. It’s not on the government’s radar, nor should it be. What it should be is gone. Why have this law if you aren’t going to enforce it by hanging out at the local vets and checking papers?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
    FatBack likes this.
  13. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I recently filed my 22 tax return that I did not bother with that year due to being laid up with a broken ankle.

    Well I should say my tax guy filed it, he told me that he could get me back $6,122 by claiming my girlfriend as a dependent since I was her caregiver and she had multiple forms of cancer and I spent much of my free time driving her to appointments as far as 50 miles away

    I asked him if he could do that and if it wouldn't come back on me then sure... Go ahead and file

    But the IRS had different plans and only sent me back 2,000 some odd dollars. Which is just as well and I'm not surprised because I figured that was too good to be true.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2024
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well my Structural Firefighting certifications are going on 20 years old now... but 'back in the day' it was common practice to 'surround and drown' unoccupied fully involved structures, after ensuring there was enough water to adequately protect any nearby uninvolved structures. If water availability was a concern, such as in areas lacking functional hydrant systems, the SOP was to 'let it burn down' and conserve the on-site water for ONLY protecting nearby structures (by keeping their facing exterior walls wet and cool).

    So far as I know, that is STILL SOP when water availability is limited, and I assure you it works just fine.
     

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