Elizabeth Warren Says ‘Cost’ Of Medicare For All Could Be 2 Million Lost Jobs

Discussion in 'United States' started by lpast, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She (Warren) also said..Democratic U.S. presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren on Friday proposed a $20.5 trillion Medicare for All plan that she said would not require raising middle-class taxes "one penny,"

    We’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year…by the end of my first term as president.” – Democratic candidate. - Barack Obama in June, 2008

    Can you say we've heard that crap before.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  2. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And perhaps you will see the end of what is left of our middle classs. E

    The work it takes to feed you has no value. Only advanced degrees deserve a living wage.

    But that is not sustainable.

    The peasants always get fed up .

    And they vastly out number people who think like you. Read our history.

    Another fdr will arise. And tell the top 10 percent they cant have it all and once again save capitalism...if you are lucky.

    Or you get a socialist revolution as fdr feared.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  3. Greenbeard

    Greenbeard Well-Known Member

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    There's no way to achieve significant health care savings--under any plan or approach--without paring back on jobs, salaries, or other health care infrastructure. If we don't want to pay what we pay for health care, we have to stop paying for something.
     
  4. lpast

    lpast Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Her medicare for all and Bernie sanders includes all illegal immigrants, Millions of them and sanders wants wide open borders so we can pay for the entire worlds Healthcare. Have a health issue run over the american border their taxpayers will pay for it. Do you realize how insane this all is
     
  5. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    This entire discussion is MOOT...

    Because M4A will never happen...:salute:
     
  6. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    The Left's afraid that WE will decide to spend more on OUR healthcare than they would like, because they have their own plans for our money.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Her recent bursts of rare honesty is going to kill her. If she really wants to win she'd better hurry back to her making stuff up habit.
     
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  8. Greenbeard

    Greenbeard Well-Known Member

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    You're spending less on health care than you'd like right now?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Why would you claim that?
     
  10. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    She wants to put people currently employed in the insurance industry out of work.
     
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  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No they don't. That's why they keep pushing for it.

    The delicious irony being that they'll be the first to implode when they realise that their vain pipe dream results in the loss of all that Progressives desperately depend upon. Freedoms, money, safety, hipster cities, an exclusively white lifestyle and social circle, etc etc. Their horror upon realising they'll actually have to slum it with the poor brown folk, will be extraordinary. Almost worth letting it happen just to watch that :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  12. Greenbeard

    Greenbeard Well-Known Member

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    I’m extending you the courtesy of assuming you’re not just stringing random syllables together incoherently.
     
  13. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't my question that made no sense.
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so republican are now ridding on we should all be forced to pay higher health costs cause it would kill the jobs of people that process claims for the hospitals and doctors

    so do we just want to make the government plan have the same amount of paper work and fighting for doctors to get paid? save those jobs?

    we could end foreign outsourcing and bring many jobs back to America, including many of the people processing insurance claims which is also being outsourced by insurance agencies
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have little faith that Warren would do this but, it is doable.

    In 2017 we spent 3.5 Trillion on health care. That is roughly double what other first world nations spent - on a per person basis - all of which have universal healthcare.

    Let us say we adopted one of these systems straight across the board at a cost of half. That represents 1.75 Trillion in savings.

    Divide by number of families (use 4 per family) so roughly 90 million families. 1.75 Trillion/90 million = 19,444 in savings, per family per year.

    Remember that the total cost is both Gov't and individual contributions so an average family would not get the whole 19 grande in savings .. but, 2500 of the total is doable.
     
  16. Enuf Istoomuch

    Enuf Istoomuch Well-Known Member

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    First, I hope she loses. Medicare For All on the scale of our population cannot work. Even at the current enrollment, the system loses billions of dollars a year in fraud. Yes the coverage is life saving to many but at the same time we see that something so large and easy to defraud is beyond a central government's ability to manage well.

    Of course, I hope Trump loses also, but that is a different topic.

    The American health insurance industry spends heavily on managing and protecting its for-profit business model. That does mean a great many jobs are being paid for out of our health insurance premiums. Not health care worker jobs but insurance industry jobs.

    Compare that to, let's say, Germany. Where every citizen is required to have health insurance from private companies. But all those companies are mainly non-profit insurers. This frees up billions of dollars that would otherwise go into rescission bureaus (denials of benefits) within insurance companies. The law also prohibits insurers from interfering in a treatment plan prescribed by doctors and accepted by patients. The law also requires insurers to pay all doctor billings within 30 days..

    Those laws force insurers to be far more efficient in their use of insurance premiums than any company in the USA.

    Medicare For All is idiotic but forcing our health care insurance industry into a non-profit model would greatly reduce the costs. The industry would continue to be private business, not government, as would doctors. It works in a country about fourth our population, it should be scalable for the USA.

    So yes, Warren is correct about job losses but wrong about how to design a health care system for our country. That's damned tough. But it does come down to a question of moral choices. Do you want affordable health insurance or to employ mass numbers of workers who deny benefits that have been paid for simply to maintain the profit making model of these companies?
     
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  17. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is a difference between health care and health coverage.
     
  18. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    How exactly does a private non-profit work???

    The average private insurance has better coverage than Medicare and denies benefits much less than Medicare, and pays for their coverage faster than Medicare.
     
  19. Enuf Istoomuch

    Enuf Istoomuch Well-Known Member

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    Healthcare in Germany
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

    Is Germany's health care system a model for the U.S.?
    Germany has the oldest health care system in the world. And it's working.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/germany-s-health-care-system-model-u-s-n1024491

    Otto von Bismarck
    Sickness Insurance Law of 1883
    Accident Insurance Law of 1884
    Old Age and Disability Insurance Law of 1889

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Social_legislation
    (many revisions and new law since then, obviously)

    No time for more, just read and consider that for 130 to 140 years they have had a system of delivering health care that has survived two World Wars, many governments and financial challenges. All while being half our cost and just as advanced, if not more so.

    So the answer is "It Works!"

    Which is where I gotta' run to now, off to work.
     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the left believe if you go after the employers that knowingly hire illegals, the problem will be reduced, no jobs, no illegals

    but the right likes illegals as they are cheaper.... how many illegals did Trump have working for him?

    make it a felony to knowingly hire an illegal, and they start coming legally - simple
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  21. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I give to you the real cost of Medicare compared to the prediction, just imagine the cost of Medicare from all.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is your point Rod ? Speak - I distinguished between those in my post. This does not affect the math that I did.

    Which is simple math ... sans economies of scale - but this should only increase savings - the question is how much. Nor is the possibility of increased efficiency considered into the equation - we should be able to do better than these other systems - we are not reinventing the wheel... we have 30 or more that we can analyse ... if the desire was there - but it is not.

    We have smart Blue - and we have Smart Red - that agree that Uni HC is the way to go - this is not a "bipartisan" issue - sure for Establishment propaganda purposes Red will pull out the "Socialist" Brush - but that is all smoke and mirrors - there is no real willingness in the majority of the Establishment - on either side - to change the systemic issues that plague our healthcare system.
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-conservative-case-for-universal-healthcare/

    1.75 Trillion is on the table - worst case scenario.
     
  23. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are tons of people who are covered by national health care but don't get care.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even more reason to change our broken system ... agreed.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We know the real cost - 3.5 Trillion in 2017 - all in Total Healthcare cost. Other nations do this for half - and provide universal healthcare.

    1.75 Trillion is on the table ... See post 90 and 97 for more info.
     

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