Emerging AI Will Crush Renewable Energy

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Jack Hays, Jul 7, 2024.

  1. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Solar and wind are already meeting the new demand. In the first quarter of 2024, solar provided 75% of new electricity capacity in the US.
     
    David Landbrecht likes this.
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, they are not, not by a long shot.
    ". . . Many modern industrial western behemoths have pledged to facilitate their growth in a green way, which – the current rate of AI growth – is incompatible with a rapid (or any sort of) energy transition. Renewables have not been able to keep up with rising energy consumption levels before the AI wave, and these cumulative trillions in AI investment only move the goal posts farther away.

    So AI developers are doing the logical thing, in the time frame they want their AI up and running (i.e., right now). They are going right to the energy source to build data centres. Some are building near natural gas fields (see: Ohio’s exploding AI demand, right near the massive Appalachia gas field). That’s all well and good, because new wells can be drilled to meet that demand.

    But there’s some very sobering news for the country’s other power consumers. AI developers have zeroed in on, logically enough, the only true 24/7 source of emissions free energy: nuclear power.

    The Wall Street Journal just recently noted the phenomenon: “The owners of roughly a third of U.S. nuclear-power plants are in talks with tech companies to provide electricity to new data centers needed to meet the demands of an artificial-intelligence boom.”. . . ."
     
    AFM likes this.
  3. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    10,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It should be. There is no technical or engineering reason why it cannot be used except politics.

    So what. The radioactive material is buried under hundreds of meters of sediment and thousands of meters of ocean water. It's not going anywhere where humans can be negatively affected.

    I have posted this before.

    Zubrin, Robert. The Case For Nukes: How We Can Beat Global Warming and Create a Free, Open, and Magnificent Future (pp. 120-121). Polaris Books. Kindle Edition.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  4. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    On the contrary, in the US, renewables are the fastest growing energy suurces. Coal and nuclear have been declining. A lot of coal plants have been converted to natural gas, and it has grown as a result. All said, solar and wind are picking up most new capacity needs. Last year, over 50% of new capacity was solar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
  5. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    10,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The future is clear. Before 1800 the world relied on power from renewable sources. The standard of living was very low. Fossil fuels enabled the very high standards of living we enjoy today. Nuclear fuels are the key to the future.

    upload_2024-7-18_6-36-23.png
    upload_2024-7-18_6-37-1.png

    Zubrin, Robert. The Case For Nukes: How We Can Beat Global Warming and Create a Free, Open, and Magnificent Future (pp. 63-64). Polaris Books. Kindle Edition.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  6. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    10,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is a politically based result. It has nothing to do with engineering economics.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Despite the claimed fast growth, renewables are falling farther and farther behind projected energy demand growth. The only energy sources capable of closing the gap are natural gas first, and nuclear for the long haul.
     
    AFM likes this.
  8. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    More untruths. One of the reasons that Yucca Mountain was abandoned is that radioactive isotopes from the atomic bomb tests of the ‘40s, were found deep underground in the caverns. What an irony - almost like nature was communicating with the Engineers, saying, “You can’t beat me”. It was obvious that the site was not quite as impenetrable to water as they had thought.
     
  9. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    10,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who cares if they are found underground? Glassified nuclear waste stored in stainless steel casks (which are used for shipping) isn’t going anywhere. This is another political decision.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
  10. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s what Bush/Cheney said in 2001, and many companies started expanding, building new power plants. Because of energy conservation efforts such as Energy Star appliances, compact fluorescent and LED lighting, etc; the power wasn’t needed; and companies like Enron and Calpine went bankrupt.
     
  11. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That sort of nibbling around the edges will be like spitting in a hurricane compared to the order-of-magnitude increase in power demanded by AI. And that demand will be driven by economic competition, so it will supersede everything else.
     
  12. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Residents of
    Residents of Nevada and New Mexico care. Anybody that lives in the West, such as myself, know that when we do get the occasional heavy rains, that it deeply penetrates these sandy soils. As mentioned, stainless steel can rust. The real kicker about all radioactive waste- nobody can guarantee that there won’t be an earthquake at any storage site, and this will be disastrous. Right now this crap is being stored all over the heavy population centers of the East coast and the Souttheast.
     
  13. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s what they said in 2001.
     
  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You are literally living in the past.
     
  15. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We learn valuable lessons from the past. Like don’t over expand if it’s not needed. And don’t go down the foolish path of Nuclear Energy again.
     
  16. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    10,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do some research on the design of the design of the casks used to transport radioactive materials. The waste will be glassified. The storage facility will be continuously monitored.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    10,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nuclear energy is the key to the future. Your post is political and Malthusian.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    UK just commissioned four new nuclear power plants. US companies are hiring. The numbers are incontrovertble.
     
    AFM likes this.
  19. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It’s good to know that the NRC will be subsidized to provide manpower to monitor this waste. Is that cost being paid by these new overprriced, over- budget Nuclear power plants? Also good to know that there will be cameras to pick up the devastating earthquake footage.
     
  20. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    10,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All nuclear waste sites are monitored.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  21. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Case closed.
    Energy Density and Human DNA Will Determine Energy Future
    By Vijay Jayaraj

    Though touted as next generation energy sources, solar and wind technologies have been shoe-horned into electricity grids only through government fiat and subsidies. Their failure to be adopted freely by investors and consumers lies in the pathetic energy density of solar panels and wind turbines.

    Energy density is defined as the amount of energy stored in a given unit of mass or volume — a metric that is critical in determining the viability of energy sources. It is typically measured in joules per kilogram (J/kg) for mass, or joules per cubic meter (J/m³) for volume. Often, the expression is in millions of joules, or megajoules (MJ).

    Wood, which was widely used before the introduction of coal, has an energy density of just 16 MJ/kg. Society’s ready adoption of fossil fuels stems from their significantly higher concentrations of energy: Coal’s is approximately 24 MJ/kg; oil, 45 MJ/kg; and natural gas, 55 MJ/kg. In an entirely different league, nuclear fuel, depending on the type, has an energy density of about 4 million MJ/kg and will certainly be used extensively as society progresses throughout the 21st century and into the next.

    The lithium-ion battery is considered important to compensating for the appallingly poor reliability of wind and solar. However, most commercial scale batteries have an energy density of less than 1 MJ/kg, orders of magnitude less than wood.

    Hydrogen, a supposedly futuristic fuel, has just a third of wood’s energy density.

    As one would expect, solar and wind fall short in comparisons of power density, which is a measure of how much energy is produced. In terms of land use, solar and wind put out 5-20 and 2-3 watts per square meter of land area where a natural gas power plant generates 1,000 watts. . . .
     
    Sunsettommy likes this.
  22. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    8,604
    Likes Received:
    2,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As EVs are zipping around the globe, and solar and wind are providing the power, it is PROVEN that lower energy density technologies are successful.

    The devil told Jesus to go the way of the devil. He told him it would be so much easier. Jesus knew that the long-term implications were a false promise.
     
  23. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Lower energy density technologies are inadequate to current demand, let alone the order-of-magnitude increase coming with AI. In the AI world, renewables will rapidly become the wave of the past.
     
  24. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    That is a devastating report as this also pertains to the footprint all the energy sources used to generate energy.

    I have stated it many times that Wind and Solar are LOW MASS power generators while Nuclear is HIGH MASS power generator in other places on the internet only to get the ignorant replies, this article supports my statement to the tee.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    34,148
    Likes Received:
    22,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Glad to be helpful.:rock_slayer:
     

Share This Page