Evidence that the Holocaust DIDN'T happen?

Discussion in 'Zionist Agenda' started by Ronstar, Dec 16, 2013.

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  1. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    You're being simplistic. The revisionists don't say that there was no Holocaust. They say that the official story of the Holocaust is an exaggeration and distortion of what happened during it.

    http://vho.org/Intro/GB/Brochure.pdf
    (excerpt)
    --------------------------------
    First of all, because of false representations by the media, it
    is necessary that we first clarify what Holocaust Revisionism
    does not maintain:
    – it does not deny that Jews were persecuted under the Third
    Reich;
    – it does not deny that Jews were deprived of civil rights;
    – it does not deny that Jews were deported;
    – it does not deny the existence of Jewish ghettos;
    – it does not deny the existence of concentration camps;
    – it does not deny the existence of crematoriums in concentration camps;
    – it does not deny that Jews died for a great number of
    reasons;
    – it does not deny that other minorities were also persecuted,
    such as gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, and
    political dissenters;
    – and finally, it does not deny that all the above mentioned
    things were unjust.

    None of these crimes of the National Socialist regime are
    doubted by Holocaust revisionists. In the view of the Revisionists, however, all these injustices have nothing to do with the
    Holocaust, which is defined as planned and organized mass
    murder, carried out specifically in homicidal gas chambers (see
    Question 4).
    Holocaust revisionists believes the following to be correct:5
    1. There was no National Socialist order for the physical extermination of Jews;6
    2. Likewise, there was no National Socialist plan for physical extermination of Jews;
    3. There was no German organization and no budget for carrying out the alleged extermination plan. Consider the
    statement by the world-renowned Holocaust researcher
    Prof. Raul Hilberg:7
    »But what began in 1941 was a process of destruction
    not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any
    agency. There was no blueprint and there was no budget
    for destructive measures [of the Juden]. They [the measures]were taken step by step. Thus came about not so much
    a plan being carried out but an incredible meeting of
    minds, a consensus mind-reading by a far-flung [German] bureaucracy.«;
    4. In detailed investigations of former German concentration
    camps, expert researchers have established: The internment camps had no sophisticated methods for mass murder, in particular no homicidal gas chambers.8
    Furthermore, the reports of mass shootings behind the GermanRussian front were greatly exaggerated and taken out of
    context;9
    5. There were neither adequate industrial facilities nor sufficient fuel to cremate such a huge number of corpses. In
    fact, the capacity of the crematories was barely sufficient
    to cremate the bodies of those who died from starvation
    and epidemics.10
    6. There is no documentation for the existence of homicidal
    gas chambers,11 and no material traces of alleged mass
    murders.12 All ‘proof’ relies on eyewitness accounts only,
    whose unreliability is widely acknowledged.13
    7. Despite massive observation by spies and resistance
    groups in areas in the near vicinity of the German concentration camps, all of Germany’s wartime enemies conducted themselves as if no exterminations of Jews were
    taking place. The charges of genocide were not raised until after Germany’s defeat, when there was no German
    government to dispute them.14
    8. Statistical investigations of living Jews worldwide show
    clearly that the losses of this ethnic group during the Second World War were nowhere near six million. The exact
    number is probably well under half a million.15
    ----------------------------------------------

    More here...
    http://www.flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&start=0
     
  2. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, there you have it. What the jew hating nazi apologists actually have decided denialism really is (it took quite a number of years to get to this statement).

    1. There was no order to exterminate the jews? Wannasee was simply setting up a travel agency to assist jews in "moving to the east". Einstatzgruppen reports aren't evidence of mission of course merely score cards to see who would win the weekly death pool.

    2. there was no physical plan to exterminate the jews, just a ideological one. Of course the documented development of gassing techniques, the documented complaints about the labor intensity of shooting thousands of civilians per day, the actual "industrialize" process from round up to cattle car to "showers" was an accident of organization.

    3. No budget? Like you expect to find a line item - Murdering jews - R&D, capital investment, operating costs. who knew there was no money to murder millions so they couldn't do it.

    4. IN detailed investigations? You mean Leuchter and Krege? Funny how revisionists insist that this is the case, yet the only "investigations" that support this idiocy are from those idiots. Oh look, my completely incompetent analysis has concluded what you paid me to conclude. Einstatzgruppen reports exaggerated and taken out of context? - I guess black and white, clear language and numbers from the perps reports themselves were merely internal propaganda to make the totenkopf clowns look good.

    5. Oh dear, the ol' let's play cremation experts. I particularly like the argument that at treblinka for instance, there were big trees standing around the camp in the denialist videos, PROVING that they didn't use the surrounding woods as fuel, despite the photographic evidence from the friggin Nazi's themselves. This is where the real jew haters love to roll up the sleeves and start comparing individual commerical cremation to the industrialized cremation of the nazis and concocting morbid calculations to prove that there wasn't sufficient heat to burn the bodies using wood as fuel.

    6. All proof is not simply eye witness accounts. There is chemical evidence as well. There is document evidence as well. But of course ALL eyewitnesses are not to be believed because its only a few hundred thousand surviving victims and about ten thousand perpetrators or so that have testified. The notion of corroboration of eye witness testimony seems to be a concept that pin head denialists have to ignore because it blows this simplistic idiotic argument out of the water. (a conspiracy to establish Israel).

    7. Oh yes, this makes perfect sense. The charges of genocide came after the war? Oh boy that definitely means it didn't happen and that the victors had it in for the poor old misunderstood nazis. Exactly how stupid does one have to be to believe such nonsense = studies ahve shown somewhere around moronic (apologies to morons everywhere).

    '8. And again the idiotic fun with numbers game. Guess the whole concept of original source repetition due to lack of any new data is far too complicated a concept for denialists to comprehend. A universal character flaw amongst them it seems.


    Denialists represent the finest example of bigoted belief in the face of facts and reality. They'd be a complete joke if they didn't trade in hateful lies.
     
  3. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Could you link to something?
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  5. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    It's possible that they killed some people with car exhaust. Tell us how this proves that there were gas chambers at the camps.
     
  6. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It isn't "possible", it is a FACT. Well and truly documented.


    Doesn't. the point was that the evidence clearly shows the research & development that went into large scale extermination techniques using gas.
    Surely you are aware of the fact that IG farben invented "nerve gas" and Sarin and Tarbun were used on auschwitz inmates to study effects and deployment vectors?
    Of course far deadlier, but also far more problematic and expensive than HCN.
     
  7. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    You also say that about the gas chambers.

    (read post #2 here)
    http://www.flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&start=0


    Your video shows them using car exhaust. Gas refers to Zyclon B that was allegedly used in the gas chambers. What you posted doesn't clearly show the research & development that went into large scale extermination techniques using gas.

    That's what we read, but is it true?

    The American media are the worst place to get info when trying to figure out what really happened.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...st-didnt-happen.336026/page-4#post-1063488116
     
  8. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes and you ignore the evidence I have provided. In fact you responded to the Dr. Piper's Polish Institute's forensic analysis as "well they could be wrong",. And of course you can't defend leuchter so its no surprise you don't mention him.




    No it shows the beginning of the pattern of problem solving. Now imagine what kind of "problem" could be solved by mass cheap extermination by asphyxiation/poison gas.
    the development of the "solution" is rather well described in any number of publications.


    Lesssseeeeeeee. Is the truth true? Obviously not in the minds of jew hating nazi apologists.
     
  9. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    OF course I can defend Leucher. Check this out. Watch it from the 2:31:45 time mark to the 2:35:20 time mark.

    ONE THIRD of the HOLOCAUST - Widescreen (full)


    This is just empty rhetoric. It's called hand-waving.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving
    (excerpt)
    -----------------------------------------
    Hand-waving (with various spellings) is a pejorative label for attempting to be seen as effective – in word, reasoning, or deed – while actually doing nothing effective or substantial.
    -----------------------------------------


    Let's not forget about this.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...t-didnt-happen.336026/page-21#post-1067465772
     
  10. Channe

    Channe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Ronstar

    There can be no denial of the systematic effort of Jewish extermination by the Nazis. While the numbers are disputed, there can be no denial of the Holocaust.
     
  11. rammstein

    rammstein Member Past Donor

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    Sure there can be. A cursory look on the internet on various open source reply boards
    will show there there are many, many, many thousands of "deniers" of the
    Holocaust™ orthodoxy. That is they say there were no "death camps" where the Germans
    were gassing Jews or anyone else in a systematic murder machine agenda. Some of these are people that just "think" that sounds more reasonable. Just like there
    are many that are born into a cloud of pro-Holocaust™ propaganda that tells them
    that this is an "undeniable truth" and not to even think about doubting it. They go
    to Holocaust™ movies and cry and are deeply moved and are conditioned to
    believe it. Others have taken a really hard scholastic look at things. They
    understand that the Holocaust™ ideology rests on TECHNICAL issues that are
    rooted in laws of chemistry and physics. And the TRUTH of the history of the
    period. Or I should say the lack thereof.

    I would ask you how many well written books on BOTH sides of this issue have you read ?
    I am talking about technical, well researched, and documented books.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  12. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    What a sad sick attitude..
     
  13. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    "At the end of World War II, General Eisenhower made a decision to personally visit as many Nazi concentration camps as he could. His reason? He wanted to document the camps and their appalling conditions.

    Anticipating a time when Nazi atrocities might be denied, General Eisenhower also ordered the filming and photographing of camps as they were liberated. Members of the U.S. Army Signal Corps recorded approximately 80,000 feet of moving film, together with still photographs.

    Within months after the war in Europe, about 6,000 feet of that film footage was excerpted to create a one-hour documentary called "Nazi Concentration Camp". Prosecutors used the film, which is graphically gruesome, to prove that Nazi leaders, on trial at Nuremberg, had perpetrated unbelievably heinous crimes against humanity.

    Thomas Dodd, one of the U.S. prosecutors, introduced the film into evidence on the 29th of November, 1945. When the lights came up, after the trial film was screened, people had a new understanding of what the words "concentration camp" really meant.

    Eisenhower wanted to be in as many pictures as possible to prove the death camps really existed. He was sometimes accompanied by Generals Bradley and Patton (such as their visit to the Ohrdruf concentration camp on April 12, 1945)."

    https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/EISENHOWER-S-PROOF-Holocaust-Evidence

    I believed the guys who came home and I believe Eisenhower.
     
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  14. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    My mom who is in her mid nineties and a survivor of German forced labor camps and was dragged out of her house by SS who pointed guns at my grandfather daring him to try and stop them has told me stories of executions of Jews on or near my grandfathers farms. My mom whose only brother was off with the PARTIZANS was tasked with taking the dairy herd out to the outer pastures. One day late morning she heard a lot of gun shots over the ridge. She studiply walked over to peek. The Germans were hearding people toward a long ditch and here shooting them. She found out the next morning that they were killing Jews. The next morning she went back to the ridge and looked down and saw a woman covering a body with a cloth. She went to ask the woman if she needed help the woman said thank you but it is our culture that we take care of our own dead. The body was that of the woman's husband. It turned out that the Germans had driven or herded the Jewish men from a Belarus Jewish village a few kilometers north of my grandfathers farm. My moms village was right on the border of Ukrainian lands and Belarus lands. I was told this story the first time when I was 10 of 12. Later as an adult I asked my mom why she told me such horrific stories . She told me that I needed to know what happened during WW II . That some day people will not believe that such evil things happened. She reminded me what my dad always said though he did not talk much about war stories that " all Germans had blood on their hands".

    My dads family like my moms had members who fought and died with the PARTIZANS..during WW II.. that is the reason where my moniker comes from....

    So anyone who dares tell me that the Holocaust did not happen or was exaggerated I say to you you are full of shitholes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  15. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    The NAZI bastards were arrogant pieces of ****.
     
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  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Gen Eisenhauer had also once said after viewing one of the camps that he was ashamed that he had German heritage. He need not be butvI understand what he meant.
     
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  17. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    I just checked they are not in Brooklyn..
     
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  18. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Each big dirty lie has that little tiny bit of truth. My parents who were in Forced Labor camps in Germany ( not killing camps) did say that food supplies got very very very very scarce by summer of 1944. But that does not mean that there was no genocide. My parents were "lucky" in that by the fall of 1944 the Germans took a portion of inmates from the main camp which was an industrial Forced Labor camp and dispersed or lent them to "agricultural needs". They were assigned to farms which were run as "family" farms by the "bauers" - farmers in (German. They were worked very hard but the farmers knew that thecAllies were advancing and soon the game would be up so the Dickerson were fairly fed by the farmers. Not that they were good guy necessarily but they knew that thecAllies would question them for their participation with the NAZI regime. Both of my parents told me that soon after the Allies ( Americans thank God) showed up they were interviewed and asked where they were forced to work. When the American occupation forces found out that prisoners were where working in the factories and on the farms each farmer was repeatedly questioned separately and then questioned in the presence of prisoners such as my parents. My parents asall others where questioned in detail and asked to dictate an affidavit as to how they were treated in the industrial camp and at the farms.

    The reason that prisoners were moved to farm work was twofold. There was a food supply problem in the camps but the Germans also needed workers on farms to produced food fir the Army .

    The people in the death camps did not get to work on farms. They were just being executed right up to the end.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  19. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are full of crap. There are no technical well researched and documented books on the denial side. NOt a one, they are all full of bullshit. From Butz to faurisson, from CODOH to the IHR nothing but hateful bullshit and poor quality sophistry.


    Anytime you want to actually produce some just let me know. I am an expert in holocaust denial having been stomping all over the scumbag racist fascists promoting this filth for decades reaching as far back as Keegstra the precursor of Zundel's trials.

    In the mean time, before you respond, please refresh yourself of denialist tactics. Pay particular attention to number 14.



     
  20. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    a poem


    For all those holocaust deniers
    Using bullshit pseudo science.
    Consider that other may have
    Knowledge that exceeds your little poisonous minds.

    Yet, this fact is lost
    On in them
    Utterly.

    Yes deniers are facists jew haters
    Only they will deny it
    Until the cows come home.

    For the admission reveals
    Unpleasant facts.
    Conspicuously absent in their
    Knowledge of history.
    Sad.
     
  21. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    You people are ignoring the info I posted on page #23.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...hat-the-holocaust-didnt-happen.336026/page-23

    I found this info. The link only works with FireFox.
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=5560
    (excerpt)
    -------------------------------
    DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER published his Crusade in Europe in 1948. In 559 pages General Eisenhower does not mention the German gas chambers in which it was—and is--claimed that millions of Jews and others were “exterminated.”

    WHY NOT?

    Are you a student? Why do you think Dwight D. Eisenhower, the man who directed World War II against the Germans on the Western front, the celebrated General who would become President of the United States, would write a history of that war and not mention the greatest WMD (gas chambers) ever known to man? Do you think, maybe, it just slipped his mind?

    Are you a professor? At the close of WWII it was claimed that four million victims were exterminated at Auschwitz alone. Keeping in mind that General Eisenhower did not mention gas chambers in his Crusade in Europe, can you provide, with proof, the name of one person killed in a gas chamber at Auschwitz? Do you believe it wrong, immoral perhaps, to ask this question? Tell me why. I can be reached at bradley1930@yahoo.com

    Bradley Smith, Founder
    Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust
    http://www.codoh.com
    -------------------------------

    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/

    edit 20 minutes later

    ------------------------------------
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n2p19_Faurisson.html
    (excerpt)
    -----------------------------------
    Three of the best known works on the Second World War are General Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe (New York: Doubleday [Country Life Press], 1948), Winston Churchill's The Second World War (London: Cassell, 6 vols., 1948-1954), and the Mémoires de guerre of General de Gaulle (Paris: Plon, 3 vols., 1954-1959). In these three works not the least mention of Nazi gas chambers is to be found.

    Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle's three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi "gas chambers," a "genocide" of the Jews, or of "six million" Jewish victims of the war.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
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  22. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More codoh bullshit.

    Yet another demonstration of the intellectual bankruptcy of holocaust denial and the clowns who claim authority.


    Gee Ike didn't write about the holocaust in his bio, thereby proving categorically that the gas chambers and the holocaust were bogus. No other possible explanation, nope.

    Profound statement of intellectual midgetry. Deniers always prefer moronic sophistry to actual facts and truths.

    But then again, it is ALWAYS written by the denialist clowns with the keen understanding that the audience is not known for its critical thinking skills. Exploitation of fascist/racist confirmation bias. Its not how you think, its how you feel.
     
  23. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    It's not proof in and of itself but it's pretty suspicious. Doesn't it at least make you a little suspicious? This would make an objective person without a foregone conclusion suspicious.
     
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  24. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No it isn't at all suspicious. Seems you cannot fathom the disgust and horror a witness to the aftermath might experience and not want to relive. You cannot fathom that such a horror was NOT the subject of his biography, it was his life. He sure as hell didn't mention the abusive treatment of some nazis after the war, so I guess that didn't happen either.

    And you aren't even remotely an objective person, so you can drop that bullshit with me. I know where you are coming from. You are number 837 in my list of holocaust deniers I have personally and actively confronted. You are way way outta your league. I've been at this for longer than you have been alive, I bet.
     
  25. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Eisenhower's book is primarily concerned with strategy, tactics, and the interaction of personalities in making the achievements of the war and winning it up to May 8, 1945.

    However, he does mention his concerns when coming upon a "horror camp" 26 days prior to the unconditional surrender of Germany. That he did not go into the details of each camp, nor publish all the photographs taken by the Signal Corps of each camp does not negate the fact that Eisenhower did mention the horrors of the first camp he saw:

    "The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.

    "I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that `the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.’ Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt."

    Dwight D. Eisenhower, Crusade in Europe, p. 446, William Heinemann Ltd, Melbourne, London, Toronto, 1949 third printing, a more expensive edition with a great many photographs.
     
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