Excuses for war

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by yangforward, Oct 11, 2024.

  1. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There have been maybe about a 100 armed conflicts of various sizes since WW2 and
    most have involved the US to some extent, despite the US being remote from nearly
    all of them.

    1964
    In 1964 next to the coast of Indochina a US Navy destroyer was sailing along and
    got hit by one, just one, bullet from a burst of machine gun fire, allegedly.

    Which happened to hit in the right place to photograph it and take the evidence to
    Congress to start a war, approval being the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

    11 Years later the goals had been achieved. 4 million Vietnamese were dead,
    the US economy had given enough money to the weapons makers to go off
    the gold standard, and Esso got the rights to the oil off the South coast of
    Vietnam, and yes that might be oversimplified.

    EXCUSE FOR WAR: If we don't stop communism in Vietnam then it will spread until
    all of the world except America is communist and then they will all attack
    America. This was called the Domino Theory.

    ALTERNATIVE: Communism is so inefficient it will collapse all by itself.

    RESULT: You are supposed to believe both narratives at the same time.

    That's called 'doublethink'. It's a sign of intelligence and conformity.
     
  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Vietnam USS Maddox bullet heard around the world 25pc.jpg

    There's the evidence, if it had hit a bit lower it might have sunk
    the ship. No, I'm not sure how it ended up pointing that way.

    But it calls for revenge and 4 million Vietnamese killed and
    some Laotians and some Cambodians and more tons of
    bombs than were dropped in WW2 should bring the
    'peace and stability' which was the alleged aim of the Gulf of Tonkin
    Resolution.
     
  3. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    How many Americans died in that conflict? I recall teenagers being sent to fight and die there. Then there was the carpet bombing, including napalm.
     
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  4. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    There were also nearly 60,000 Americans killed in Vietnam.

    I notice you're fine with calling liberals commies even though that's just as false.

    Anyway, the Vietnam war has been over for 50 years; what's your point?

    The worlds a dangerous place, but has never enjoyed the relative peace in prosperity that it has since These United States and it's Allies made the decision to stand up to tyranny wherever and whenever it rears it's ugly head.

    That peace may be coming to end; just yesterday tRaitor tRump affirmed that he would end NATO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2024
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  5. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    2001

    Was supposed to be a Space Odyssey, but instead two planes hit two
    buildings in New York City and three came down.

    We were told not to investigate it at all but to concentrate on revenge or
    fixing the root cause or something.

    So we went to war in Afghanistan, and then in Iraq.

    This brought badly needed business to the weapons industry which
    had not done well in the previous decade after the end of the Cold War,
    although the US economy was in the black for the first time in a long
    time.

    EXCUSE: If we don't fight them there we will have to fight them here

    ALTERNATIVE THOUGHTS: Should we let known terrorists into the
    country? Isn't it normal to fly a fighter up to see who is flying a hijacked
    plane, instead of just letting it fly around for an hour?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2024
  6. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    The problem was lax security on US domestic flights. Warnings were given but ignored. Those highjackings should never have happened.
    But then Afghan and Iraq were punished althiough they had nothing to do with it.100,000 dead and the country wrecked for nothing except American pride.
     
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  7. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very good questions.

    Something like 58,000 Americans died in that conflict, so about 1.5% of the total.

    A precise number seems impossible to obtain because some GI's quietly
    defected and joined the Vietnamese and got married there, and others
    were killed, and some were walking around in the jungle years later.

    The Carpet bombing included Arc Light missions where a flight of
    six 52s dropped bombs and destroyed 2 square miles of jungle containing
    villages and rice paddies.

    The overall objective was, as stated in the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, to
    bring Peace and Stability to S E Asia.
     
  8. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    War? Sells lotsa expensive equipment that get's torn up and wasted and needing even more replacements. It is why the deepstate hates Trump.... he didn't creaTE any new markets for them... but good ol' Joe did.. starting with leaving a few billions worth of war material to our sworn enemies and then supplying the most corrupt regime in Europe with even 100's of billion more.
     
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  9. Esau

    Esau Banned

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    This American was ahead of his time


     
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  10. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm looking for a trend here, the narrative/excuse for war we follow is the one to benefit
    the weapons makers, despite all the other possibilities, we always pick the one
    that brings the weapons lobby the most money.


    Vietnam: the Domino Theory: look ahead a few decades when the entire world has
    fallen to communism, so go to war now before we have to, if indeed we ever will have
    to, but don't miss the opportunity.

    2001: Again, Look ahead - to when instead of 19 hijackers we have millions
    of foreigners in the country doing things, so it's better to fight them over there
    than wait until they all come over here.

    For the current proxy war between the US and Russia in Ukraine the same
    narrative type is chosen. Look ahead to when instead of just protecting Donetsk,
    Russia has decided to take over all of Europe. Don't keep the battle inside
    Ukraine, but launch drones from Finland a full 1,200 miles into Russia. Atta boy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2024
  11. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An aspect of the overall trend is the US public looks at the
    situation and says: Vietnam is 8,000 miles away, and I'm
    not sure they are communists either.

    But then the weapons industry advertising visionary
    arrives and says:

    that's now but in 20 years from now after Vietnam and other
    countries have become more communist and there are more
    countries joined up, then they will gang up against us and
    we will be worse off than dead, after all, 'better dead than red'.

    So we go to Vietnam and kill people because although there
    is no danger, one day there will be.
     
  12. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If everyone is just defending their own countries then
    nobody will be doing any attacking, and there will be no wars*,
    *except possibly border disputes.

    Somebody has to do the attacking and it might as well
    be us.

    And that is our role in the world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2024
  13. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Putler needs this memo. Lol

    No us boots on the ground in the Ukraine war. They are learning.
     
  14. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thread.
    Usually when one has the gift of hindsight they can see the mistakes that were made and what SHOULD have been done...but not here.
     
  15. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    America is an empire. What more can one expect from your standard empire?
     
  16. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    Never heard of him…
     
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  17. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I always get the feeling that I’m reading Russian propaganda farm fodder in your threads.
     
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  18. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I constantly think I'm reading contradictions.

    Someone will write in this forum that the US is always trying to avoid war,

    but when I write against having yet another war I'm accused of being a foreigner,

    as though trying to avoid war is un American.
     
  19. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    You are
     
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  20. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they said the same during the war in Vietnam,

    that people like Noam Chomsky, from New York was in the pay of Ho Chi Minh.

    Anyone who does not favor war must be a foreigner and is an enemy, get used to it.
     

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