Fascism and banning free thought in Florida

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, May 25, 2023.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly fascism is being introduced to Florida. From book banning to word banning to banning criticism of the governor.

    Book banning was exemplified by removing from Elementary Schools in Miami (though not yet from Middle School) of a poem about liberty. The fact that the book was banned is not as important as the REASON why it was banned. It was banned because some fascist parents found it "offensive".

    I don't know who would feel "offended" by history. Especially a period in which they weren't even alive, but if you feel offended, maybe that's a good thing. There are moments in our history we SHOULD be ashamed of. "Shame" is a sentiment that allows us to not repeat those moments.

    I was in elementary school when MLK was assassinated. I remember that was the moment I became aware of the significance of Civil Rights. I had never given it much thought that black kids usually hang out together on one side of the class, and white kids in the other. Our teacher changed the seating arrangement and mixed us up. That's how I made friendship with one of my black classmates who remained a close friend until we had to move out of town. The teacher played a recording of MLK speeches and explained to us what they meant along with some our history. That was Michigan, but if it had been Florida today, that would most likely have gotten her fired.

    It's sad how REAL conservatives keep trying to excuse the fascist. It's fascism... pure and simple. It doesn't matter if the book was or not at a level for elementary school kids. It's the FACT that it was removed because some fascist parents fell "offended". Just like it's not relevant if Disney deserved to have their own district or not. It's the FACT that it was removed because a fascist governor felt offended by free speech. And it makes no difference if elementary school kids understand that gay people exist... it's the fact that teachers are forbidden from even using words like "gender identity" or "gay" or... even showing a movie that includes a gay character because fascists will accuse them of being pedophiles.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Thoughts are always free.



    But there is no such thing as freedom of expression in state run schools.
     
  3. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    I thought schools were run by local government, but now that appears to be less and less true in Florida.
     
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  4. MelshieMaze

    MelshieMaze Well-Known Member

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    In layman's terms, DeSantis signed policies that make it okay to remove books even if they so much have one gay character in them, and also if even one parent complains about it, and they can lock you up if you don't comply. Sounds authoritarian as **** to me.
     
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  5. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you start doing wacka-doodle stuff like sexualizing elementary school children, its gonna lead to some wacka-doodle counter policies like banning everything. Don't want it to happen? Then how about LEAVING THEM KIDS ALONE!?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023
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  6. MelshieMaze

    MelshieMaze Well-Known Member

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    Seems like conservatives need to take their own advice.
     
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  7. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sounds like someone needs to put context in their replies
     
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  8. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    The poem he referenced had nothing to do with sexualization. It was a poem read at President Biden's Inauguration, here is a text of that poem:
    http://contentmanager.med.uvm.edu/d...ments/the_hill_we_climb.pdf?sfvrsn=44a33335_2

    Can anyone please tell me why this should be kept away from kids not yet in middle school?
     
  9. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    it sounds like tyranny of the nuttiest q nut in each school district.
     
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  10. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Public schools are government schools. Government is "the state", not just national or regional governments. The informed "Left" used to know that.

    “A state is a centralized political organization that imposes and enforces rules over a population within a territory. There is no undisputed definition of a state.[1][2] One widely used definition comes from the German sociologist Max Weber: a "state" is a polity that maintains a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence, although other definitions are not uncommon.[3][4] “ WIKI, State (polity)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_(polity)#cite_note-salmon-2008-4

    Whenever government runs the schools there is no freedom of expression. Hence the inability of the "Left" to dent the DeSantis base of support.

    Political double-talk has been so over used that it is now rather ineffective.
     
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  11. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Public schools have never been "free speech zones". The voting public knows that attacking Desantis for removing sexually explicit books and other "inappropriate" text from school libraries does not represent a power grab. His opposition is again helping the DeSantis campaign, and it certainly needs that help. ;-)
     
  12. nobodyspecific

    nobodyspecific Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If it's a speech I hate, doesn't that make it hate speech?

    Supreme Court Sides With Praying Football Coach in First Amendment Case

    Sure sounds like the conservative majority in the supreme court is of the opinion that the 1st amendment doesn't suddenly cease existing because the location happens to be a public school. Perhaps you have your notes backwards? Private schools are not constrained by the first amendment - which is why you see religious private schools. They do not have to respect the whole establishment of religion clause as they are not run by the government.
     
  13. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The SCOTUS is an instuition of the state. The fact that it allows some speech does not mean that it permits all speech.

    Government schools have always limited freedom of expression.
    It is fortunate, as the White Rose proved that thoughts are still free everywhere.
     
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  14. MelshieMaze

    MelshieMaze Well-Known Member

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    I know what I said and I know who I was talking about when I said it.
     
  15. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    the school district maintains monopoly on use of violence? please teach that one to the violent incels who constitutionally carry their own violence on the school grounds. .

    a school district has some aspects of government (eg property tax), but might be closer to a cooperative effort by local parents to educate children?
     
  16. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same people that indoctrinate their children into invisible sky beings that will burn them for all eternity if they don’t obey, the same people that cheer schools imitating prisons and deem active shooter drills necessary, that had no issues with books that discuss the seminal emissions of animals and attend services at places that have to carry pedophile insurance — are concerned that children knowing gay people exist is too far.

    Fascinating stuff.
     
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  17. MelshieMaze

    MelshieMaze Well-Known Member

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    You know what would be the icing on this cake? If DeSantis or one of his conservative buddies or some Florida citizen spoke and condemned Hitler for being a Nazi and stamping out freedoms while he's ironically helping ban books from schools that might not even have any sexual references in them.
     
  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    A school district that has the power to ban guns would possess the power of a state, and it would certainly have the power to restrict freedom of expression.
    There has never been unrestricted freedom of expression in government schools.

    But if your point is the gun bans only serve to create gun free killing zones for criminals you are certainly right about that.
     
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  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Again, certain books have always been banned in government schools. Everyone knows that. Hence the ineffectiveness of the attacks on DeSantis.
    "Progressives" should fire their political strategists.
    That would really help the DP, especially if DeSantis hired a few of them -- and he is a Republican - so, it could happen. ;-)
     
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  20. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Well, I read the poem. Looks to me like it needs a lot of context to understand it. A lot of it you won't even know the history of until you learn it in middle school.
     
  21. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    IOW, you know that public schools are always instruments for the indoctrination of the young.
    Prayers for religious indoctrination, the Pledge of Allegiance for more "progressive" indoctrination.
    Probably inspired Pink Floyd's The Wall.

     
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  22. MelshieMaze

    MelshieMaze Well-Known Member

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    But this isn't even just those kinds of books, that also includes ones that may be fairly recent and have one gay character or not even that, but they can get taken away if even one parent complains. That also would go for older classics that were never banned before but now someone suddenly decided was a problem because....they just could.
     
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  23. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Oh, pleeeaaase. "Won't somebody think of the children?" is the single most awful argument that plagues the political debate.

    We all know this is not about concern for the children because if the situation was something different like,nsay, a wacka-doodle Christian fundamentalist teacher spreading religious propaganda, Conservatives would praise her.

    Not too long ago, it was not uncommon for right-wingers to respond to RadFems with "Why are these Trans issues soo importantvto you?" Nowadays, those same people talk about nothing else. Matt Walsh made that horrendous documentary and the top articles on Daily Wire are all about LGBTQ-questions.

    The Right flips out over this issue like they do with no other. A company can support all kinds of different violations of rights and they will not speak out against it at all, but the change their logo to a rainbow theme for one month, they completely lose it. Teachers can teach all kinds of nonsense and they do not speak out against until they mention homosexuality.

    It is just so weird to me.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023
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  24. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Yes, government schools have a long history of banning every kind of publication. That is why this issue will not hurt RD.
     
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  25. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Fancy, but I was referring to a quotes about state run schools in the context of Florida being the state. Not the local government or the county government or the federal government....
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023

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