Find me where it says "separation of church and state"

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Marcny, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    So how does this
    ...all men are equally free and independent; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.​
    square with "separation of church and state"?
     
  2. Trinnity

    Trinnity Banned

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    As with all things - in moderation is always best.

    This separation from religion goes too far and the law is an ass.

    Separation of Church and State has become an attack on religion.

    I don't know what the remedy is, frankly. I just know it's gone too far.
     
  3. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    anyone who lies, is an idiot.

    your posts render far too many.

    My intent is to enable, so that any can step on the liar, equally.

    ie... truth destroys ignorance (the sword of all swords)
    i aint a genius. I am just a goof that came across a mathematical frame as a kid and have spent more time making sure it is correct, then you perhaps have spent working for a living

    giving the next generations a chance you and i did not; the truth on the first pass.

    ie... with reality on the move, eventually idiots will be extinct

    Do you realize, i have never opened one of your links since i have been on this site?
     
  4. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    perhaps trying using common sense.

    look at basic wiki, then think

    In nuclear physics and nuclear chemistry, nuclear fission is a nuclear reaction in which the nucleus of an atom splits into smaller parts (lighter nuclei), often producing free neutrons and photons (in the form of gamma rays), and releasing a tremendous amount of energy.


    the gamma is just 'light' (em)

    so begin with the atom you can hold then to split it. the left overs are smaller elements and 'light'

    nothing magical about it.

    ie.... fission proved the claim and all i am sharing is an analogy that anyone can comprehend

    or to comprehend that analogy, then the anhk is also comprehensible. The cross is em (light) the loop is time.

    It's stupid easy and FACT all wrapped into ONE.

    The problem with you separating 'religion' from your 'state of mind' is you choose not to pursue truth.
     
  5. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    you didnt give a circumstances.

    i know the stories and used on of them to share a fact of nature (cell division)

    heck procreation fits the exact same philosophical description; "a life must give a portion of itself to live into the next generation"
    the pathetic sleep walker is the idiot that does not comprehend who they are

    i know i am from the previous generations, alive and in the flesh. (my parents gave up a sperm/egg to combine and make me)

    its a number that is supposedly be bad to the christian wingnuts


    basic wiki

    iron maiden has a cool song about it
     
  6. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    i doubt it
     
  7. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    is that how you became gay too?
     
  8. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    at least someone can tell it like it is
     
  9. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    mother nature is the 'creator' of all evolved life.

    basic
     
  10. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    kind of like in modernization, people can comprehend responsibility without wingnuts of a church telling them to do it their way
    then find a hole to crawl into and bury yourself

    because you will either evolve or be extinct, like the dinosaurs and soon the churches

    kind of like martin luther or even jesus to judaism
    what has gone to far, is the idea that a religious wingnut holds the commands, in which one states 'thou shalt not false witness' and then be allowed to lie out the gazoo and not be held accountable; that has gone too far, for too long!
     
  11. Trinnity

    Trinnity Banned

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    What, exactly, does THAT mean?
     
  12. Sadistic-Savior

    Sadistic-Savior New Member Past Donor

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    Examples?


    Fine. Mandate that those items be taught if you want. I dont think theists would have a problem with that either.

    I am not advocating taking evolution out of school. I am advocating allowing people to include competing theories if they want to.


    Your response is retarded. Declaring that something cant exist despite the fact that you cannot prove it doesnt exist is a belief.

    If I say "Santa Claus does not exist!" that is still a belief. I am making a declaration without actual evidence.


    You would think so. But most atheists do not treat it that way.


    Thats the point...they do not merely say "I disagree". They have an emotional response that is analogous to what you would expect from a religion. They take it personally.


    Of course they do. I have no problem with that. Neither do the vast majority of people who support voucher systems.

    Private schools and home schooling work exactly the same way. You are expected to adhere to standards regardless.


    Exactly. That is why liberals dont like vouchers. They do not want people teaching their kids things that liberals dont like.

    I disagree. In my experience, that is not true at all. Liberals simply dont define THEIR ideas as "indoctrination". But that does not necessarily mean it is not indoctrination.


    Case in point. Some people disagree with you, and they are ALLOWED to disagree with you. You should not be indoctrinating their children with your own ideas, no matter how right you think they are.
     
  13. Eddie Haskell

    Eddie Haskell Banned

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    Exactly, Someone.
    To me, "atheism" is but the logical and inevitable response to a highly illogical and irrational belief system - the adherents of which (nearly exclusively Christians and Muslims) endeavor to impose their beliefs upon others, most especially by way of their inappropriate and powerful influence over lawmaking and public policy. Ergo, were it not for such proselytization, I would not feel the need to vocalize my "atheism."


    Yours.
    GM
     
  14. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    The phrase comes from Thomas Jefferson, a key author of the freedom of religion amendment amd coauthor of the first freedom of religion law in the US, from an explanation he gave to the Anabaptists.

    http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

    "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
     
  15. MrConservative

    MrConservative Well-Known Member

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    No fair, you beat me! :sad: I was literally going to post that EXACT same link!!! I guess it's not too much of a coincidence though. All you need to do is Google Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, and voila! It is the first link shown!

    Anywho, I would also like to add that Connecticut didn't even have a state constitution until 1818. They still used their state Charter which they got from England, so their religious persecution laws where pretty much the same. If you weren't an Anglican, then life pretty much sucked for you.
     
  16. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    If by this you mean the establishment and free exercise clauses, Jefferson had nothing to do with the drafting process. It was Madison who proposed an amendment along those lines, but the amendment as ratified was authored by various members of Congress.
     
  17. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    We simply don't have a state religion.... like the Church of England.

    Leaves Americans free to worship as they like ... or not at all.
     
  18. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    the commands claim no lying but to even be a christian a person must lie to themselves and consider a person they never even met, a god.

    ie... false witness


    that is the BS of religious 'beliefs'...................... lying!

    anyone can believe whatever they want, but lying or false witness is not a right, it aint a commands, it aint right no matter which god; period.


    ps..... it aint even a right to lie in America!

    ie.... if caught, then each should be found in contempt, everytime!
     
  19. krunkskimo

    krunkskimo New Member

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    how does this post square with my post?
     
  20. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    It would be unreasonable to think He never existed at all.
     
  21. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Just answer the question, if you dare.
     
  22. Someone

    Someone New Member

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    How is denying Christians special privileges not granted to other religions "going too far"? There is no reason for religion to be in the government at all. There is literally no religious question the government ought to take up or answer. Keeping the government from addressing religious matters is the moderate position. The extreme positions here would be a total ban on religion or total support of a state religion--the middle point between these positions is for the government to wash its hands of religious questions and leave such matters to the individual. Which it does. The US government is not engaged in any war against Christians, and denying them special treatment is not an assault upon them.

    All religions ought to be treated the same by the government, and no religious matter ought to be endorsed or regulated by the government. They should be totally, completely separate.

    Not even slightly. The fact that some Christians had been accustomed to the government illegitimately granting them special treatment does not make it an attack upon Christianity for the government to begin denying those special privileges. Christians are treated with the same disinterest and non consideration as other religions.

    99% of the time when Christians cry persecution in the US, or that the government has 'gone too far', they're flat out making crap up or crying about being denied special treatment.
     
    Bowerbird and (deleted member) like this.
  23. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    Jesus just pick a religion, people!

    Yall are like the person who never thought to have a favorite song. What's up with yall?
     
  24. Photonic

    Photonic Banned

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    I would call my religion science. But science isn't a religion, since it's based on empirical data.

    Show me a religion based on fact, and I might consider it. If it's falsifiable.
     
  25. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Maybe the belief of Christians is wrong - but this doesn't change anything. If I will not awake from my death in one eternity then I will not be astonished about. But if I live in the hope this will happen because god is in love then this has nothing to do with a lie. A life without hope is not worthful in my eyes.

    Hmm - I don't know why you are calling me a liar - but I'm sure if you are thinking it makes your own opinion more worthful if you are calling other people liars without any reason to do so then you are just simple wrong.

    I'm not hundred percent sure that every mathematician believes in god - but specially people who are involved in the unbelievable worlds of mathematical structures are often very sure that they are in contact with a kind of spiritual form of reality. I never heard an mathematician who said "I contructed the idea that ... because I like to show that Hitler is right or Stalin is right" or something like this. - They are alway speaking as if they had discovered and/or conquered a new land - or they found a new species on a new planet - they are always inspired and inspiring ... A very famous mathematician called their work even "arts".

    I'm sure idiots will survive. In this question darwinism is either wrong or an idiocy itselve.

    Your are showing to me that you like to hurt other people with your ability to be ignorant and agressive - but it would be interesting for me to understand why you are thinking an ignorant and agressive behavior is able to replace happyness, love and truth. Or whatelse are you looking for in your life here on this planet? Why are you here? What's your way home?

    http://youtu.be/Yqa82hSWohc
     

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