Free Market Fundamentalist Ideology is based on a Logical Fallacy.

I have to laugh when right-wingers claim to understand von Hayek! Even the London School of Economics couldn't Hayek and evenually Hayek fled London to immigrant to the U.S. and immediately sign up for Social Security by the advice of Charles Koch. Here is the source you requested:
QUOTE:
"Samuelson recalled that “Hayek’s The Pure Theory of Capital was not stillborn. But it was a pebble thrown into the pool of economic science that seemingly left nary a ripple.”27 The diagram-laden convolutions of Prices and Production seemed like a beach read in comparison. As Milton Friedman,28 a disciple of Hayekian thinking, put it, “I am an enormous admirer of Hayek, but not for his economics. I think Prices and Production was a very flawed book. I think his capital theory book is unreadable.”29

Hayek acknowledges at the start of The Pure Theory of Capital that he approached his subject with a heavy heart. He writes of his “great reluctance” to embark on the task and expresses sympathy with those, like Keynes, who had tired of abstractions and turned to addressing how economics works in the real world. The very scale of the subject daunted and depressed him. “My reluctance to undertake this work would have been even greater if from the beginning I had been aware of the magnitude of the task,”30 he wrote. The whole tone of the book is one of apology and despair. “The present book with all its shortcomings is the outcome of work over a period so prolonged that I doubt whether further effort on my part would be repaid by the results.”31 Later he was to confess “it very gradually dawned on me”32 that “the thing’s become so damned complicated it’s almost impossible to follow it 33 (Wapshott, Nicholas, Keynes Hayek: The Clash that Defined Modern Economics , Norton. Kindle Edition. p. 183)." And here is the actual book as a pdf. !"

Austrian Economist Friedrich von Hayek came to the US to collect Social Security and Medicare. Charles Koch encouraged Hayek to collect SSI while in and out of the US. Koch further advised that when in the US Hayek could also have medical care for a gall bladder medical illness. It turns out it wasn’t the patriarch of the Fred C. Koch that gave the advice, but one of his living sons, Charles Koch, that is now bankrolling mafia connected Trump to abolish SSI leaving millions of Americans in poverty who paid into the old age insurance program.

Charles Koch to Friedrich Hayek: Use Social Security!

"In a 1973 letter, the right-wing billionaire urged the libertarian philosopher to collect Social Security and to use Medicare coverage when visiting the United States." By Yasha Levine and Mark Ames
SEPTEMBER 27, 2011

[excerpt...]
"Hayek’s comparatively liberal attitude toward social insurance hardened considerably by the time he published his 1960 opus, The Constitution of Liberty. Despite privately spending the intervening years paying into Social Security, Hayek devoted an entire chapter—titled “Social Security”—to denouncing the modern welfare state as a gateway to tyranny and moral decay. Ironically, one of Hayek’s main objections to government programs like Social Security was the “fundamental absurdity” of using tax dollars to promote their benefits. In other words, Hayek publicly objected to the kind of brochure that Charles Koch sent him. In their private correspondence, however, we could find no objection to this “fundamental absurdity.”

By the mid-1970s, Hayek had fully distanced himself from the modest benefits he’d originally conceded to in The Road to Serfdom. In his preface to the 1976 edition, he explained his “error”: “I had not wholly freed myself from all the current interventionist superstitions, and in consequence still made various concessions which I now think unwarranted.”

Publicly, in academia and in politics, in the media and in propaganda, these two major figures—one the sponsor, the other the mandarin—have been pushing Americans to do away with Social Security and Medicare for our own good: we will become freer, richer, healthier and better people."

[...full article continues.]

 

There are two types of economists. Those who live in classrooms and libraries and those that live in the real world. The classroom types quote books and theories. The real world types reference FACTS. The gobbldygook above is a sample of a classroom economist. Here's an example of real world economics:

Both my grandfathers were immigrants with little education that pushed carts selling apples and pencils in New York City when they arrived. One became a tech for Thomas Edison. The other became the Fire Chief of Newark, NJ.

I enlisted in the military at 18 and earned $78/mo (after taxes). I worked hard and went to college. Now I'm happily retired with three college educated kids and a SUPERWIFE to spend my days with. My roommate from college grew up in a urine smelling tenement in Spanish Harlem with no dad around. His mom was a seamstress. He's an MD now.

Get your opinions from reading about life... or living it. Your choice.

 

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

So you didn't mind killing people for two and a half bucks a day. Fine. I get it.

Were you under an erroneous impression that you had some sort of point to make? I repeat: the fact that you -- and a few people you know -- were strong enough to run the race while carrying parasites in your backs does not mean everyone else is also that strong. It also doesn't mean the parasites were the ones running, or that they deserved to cross the finish line with you, let alone ahead of you.

<yawn> Still awaiting your response to my post #347 in this thread....

 

Exactly! That is why in American Universities there are two economic schools. One is called "Economics," and the other is called, "Business School of Economics," because the "Free Market" Neo-Liberal economic theory is totally bogus, unconnected to reality, so that the other school of business is necessary to teach how to actually run a business which is in some cases are designed to never make a profit!

Trump failed in school, his parents were immigrants, he cheated everyone he did business with, he married twice, had numerous affairs, and paid for abortions, his second wife is a Russian whore, and is in hundred of millions of dollars in debt, betrayed his country, and now will likely go to prison, and all of his money is on loan.

It looks like you took the hard way. Trump said those that go into the military are losers and suckers. The parents of fallen U.S. service members denounce Trump for referring to all Americans who died fighting in wars as “suckers” and “losers” during a 2018 visit to France.

 

Schools are for academics hiding from reality. I prefer the REAL WORLD. An academic learns to ride a bicycle by reading about it but never actually rides one. That's an academic's whole approach to life. Academics are designed to PREPARE you for life... not SHIELD you from it.

I really don't care about Trump's private life at all. If I want moral guidance, I'll talk to a priest. All I want from my President is to keep my family safe and prosperous. Trump did that. I really don't care if he screws aardvarks.

Trump never said that. It was pure BS. Bolton and LTG McMasters who were actually THERE... both swore he never said that. I know LTG McMasters. He's an honest man. (Notice here is no video and its all hearsay?)

 

But you are not saying what the real world is. What is your methodology and epistemology? Professors and students ride bicycles all the time and learn the same as everyone else. You are just making stuff up. Again, you lack a sound argument so you must exaggerate, "An academic....that's an academics whole way of life...Academics are." Students and professors have various approaches to life such as a physicist, doctor, philosopher, and a poet. Come on. I thought you were arguing for common sense. Would the types of "academics" make a difference? Isn't some "academics" like philosophy be about one's approach to life---or is that just academic?

I thought you and the Right-Wing cared a lot about values, "approach to life," and now "a priest." They certainly care how others act sexually.

If Trump can't even be a successful husband (divorced, and remarried) then how is he going to keep your family safe and prosperous? At least one-million Americans died from Covid-19 as Trump said "It's was just the flu!" I heard him say it! So at least a million families were not kept safe by his lie. What if the aardvark he screws has a virus?

"It's just the flu!"-Donald Trump​

Of course, Trump never lies. Former President Trump has told some 30,573 lies, or 21 lies per-day during four years according to the Washington Post, in addition to the lies Trump is still telling today.

 

You are funny. I graduated West Point in 1975. I held a young Soldier in my arms as she bled to death screaming after an IED shredded her Iraq. I held her and did what I could to help her. I arrived in Iraq my first day and went to mail a letter to my wife to tell her I had arrived safely. The APO (Army Post Office) had been hit by a terrorist rocket and both of the young Army Postal Clerks had been killed.
I don't have "methodology" and "epistimalogy". I just have real human beings I have cared about... that died within your academic bullshit.

I care about how I have been saved in combat and how (hopefully) I have saved others. Your ridiculous opinions about life and death are meaningless. ONLY LIFE AND DEATH matter. And you''ve never been there. You might as well be offering your opinions about a flight to MARS.

You really don't know what you are talking about. Stick to what you know... gay rights and transgender issues...

 

I have no reason to believe what you say is true. Best of all, other persons have witnessed your weak responses. Thank you.

 

Sorry ... I am West Point Class of 1975. Underachievers always doubt what we have done and achieved. Underachievers and losers can't believe what believe what normal people can actually do and accomplish with motivation and desire.

 

Be afraid of truth widdle one... be very afraid of truth. Just deny truth... its easy for widdle one like you.

 

As Trump would say, "Sad!"

 

The experiences of individuals are facts - well recorded events.

BUT, to understand, one needs the methodology of science - epistemology, etc. - the careful aggregation and analysis of myriad facts.

Thanks for your service. While I disagree with how our government uses our military, I have deep respect for the consistent heroism of our troops.

 

Here is another great video on economics by economist Michael Hudson discussing the current wave of speculative inflation, and its various engineered causes. Here is a summary of the video by Hudson taken from the transcript of this video. (All transcript errors are mine).

Quote:

Michael Hudson: "I'm going to give you my punch line first because that's how we're going to end up this discussion. What has really been inflated since 2008 has not been consumer prices, but asset prices, real estate prices, stocks & bond prices; things at the one percent held wealth has been inflated much more than goods and services, especially for real estate. This debt has been inflated not by government debt; not by government deficits, but by the federal reserves creating nine trillion dollars of subsidies to the banks to support real estate prices, and hence the value of bank-held mortgages, stock, and bond prices.

This is not discussed, or even recognized in the mainstream economic models. Instead, we have a kind of mythology by right-wing anti-labor financial lobbyists. This mythology is about what I think most of the listeners are expecting us to discuss--the inflation of rising consumer prices. And, that's the only kind of inflation that the Federal Reserve talks about. This is all blamed on increasing the money supply as if somehow money is creating the inflation. They're not talking about inflation as a result of monopoly pricing. They're not talking about inflation as a result of NATO's sanctions against Russia. They're just talking about money and somehow if we can stop the money supply; if we can stop the government spending so much money on Social Security, and Medicare, and other social spending--but not military spending--then everything will be over so we're actually going to be talking about the relationship between the inflation of Housing and asset prices on the one hand, and how this actually affects the inflation of consumer prices, and how debt and inflation all go together."

What causes inflation? Economists Radhika Desai & Michael Hudson explain
​

 

Good points here.

However, I think they need a better explanation for property price increases.

What I've seen in Seattle and the broader SF region is that demand is high. People want to live here.

So, demand is high, but supply of land can't really change.

That IS a real problem. I don't mean to brush it under the rug. These areas are known to be way better off with a wider range of income including ways for low income individuals to live good lives in these places.

 

Thank you, I needed this. I'm surprised I haven't seen the video.

 

Since it is the inescapable shortage of desirable land that is the cause of the high real estate prices, I was thinking that we could socialize land and lease it according to ability to pay and let the 'ownership' be restricted to the building and structures built upon the land.

The lease would be legally structured to be as solid an bullet proof as a deed of trust, and transferable within tight regulations so not as to drive up the price of the building, the value of the lease would vary according to ability to pay.

I don't know if it would work, but I'm just tossing around the idea. Seems to me it might work, in theory, and bring down the retail prices.

 

I think we discussed this before.

As for transition, even if the system were good, I really don't see people allowing government to take over ownership of their property. I certainly would NOT be interested in the government owning my property.

 

True, though it works in theory, the practicality is nil.

 

Let's not forget Ayn Rand, towards the end of her life, after her many years in America denouncing the welfare state, applied for, and received, benefits from the US government.

the hypocrisy of it all.

 

The Federal Reserve and real estate inflation and disrupting global trade with sanctions are all certainly large contributors to our inflated money, but to pretend govt print2spend practices arent is pretty disingenuous. The Treasury was long ago tasked with printing money and putting it into circulation for the express purpose of creating regulated inflation because it was understood (correct or not) that the economy needed some minor inflation to account for the increase in wealth. Without it, I suppose, we'd end up with common items costing '$0.000001' if the economy did well enough. To claim govt printing and spending isn't a part of it just screams 'we mustn't risk disempowering the almighty govt!' to me. But at any rate, most of the other points are still solid. Thjose things all are contributors to our inflation, and they are being directed to make it worse because both corporations and the govt stand to benefit from 'the little people' being poor, propertyless and dependent. A nation of renters is a nation of slaves.

 

My uncles were like that.

It sounds like hypocrisy, but you take what's offered when you're in trouble, and newly facing life's problems can be a real education.

My arch conservative cousins made it clear that they and their parents learned a lot as the parents aged and/or got health and income problems after YEARS of seriously hard work and careful planning with their corporation that just didn't totally work out.

 

industrialized capitalism has brought more wealth to more people then any time in history, it has faults, and that why we tweak the system with regulations and laws, no perfect system exists, and yes i am an old FDR liberal, we must recognize man is a social animal, had we not hunted in socialistic packs years ago humanity would have died out, evolution is not onlt about winners and strong men, a group cooperation is also included and left out by many

 

But that's just it, isn't it?

But here's the thing, it's the people, often known as that conservative uncle, or someone similar, who spend their lives accusing liberals, like myself, who advocate programs like medicare, etc., of being 'socialists' or 'communists' and pontificate at every thanksgiving get together, like drunken blowhards, only to find themselves, hard on the luck, later in life, being forced to accept what they spent their lives denouncing, all the while not being aware enough during those years to realize why I supported the policy in the first place.

See? It's their ignorance I have an issue with. Not everyone can be as lucky as those who are, well, not only hard workers, but are lucky enough not to have bad luck. Their sentiment is rooted in the ignorant belief that everyone receiving an entitlement are lazy bums. That just isn't true, and, I always tell them, okay, apply for it and see if you can get it. It's not easy. It took my disabled brother, due to an accident who suffered for months until he finally got his SSI papers approved and got his first check. But, if you listen to the detractors, they seem to think the government is giving entitlements to anyone who walks up to the clerk's window and holds out their hands. Not true. Not true.

 

All True. I fully agree. I can't tell you how many times my uncles told me that I'm defending useless slobs unwilling to work.

One of them was actually a preacher!! Others believed the shirking had to do with families not taking care of each other (which they absolutely did). And, the idea that people don't necessarily have families that can provide was just blown off as more people being lazy and irresponsible.

ALL I'm saying is that their ignorance may be profound, but it isn't necessarily hypocrisy.

They just didn't learn the truth until it him them personally.

 

That's right. The really wonderful benefits, like being given free room in board in a luxury hotel like the New York City "Watson" hotel are reserved for illegal aliens... very difficult for a citizen to get.