God created sin - Change my mind

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Maquiscat, Apr 13, 2024.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If there is nothing, then it doesnt matter. Feed a million people or torture them death for fun, all the same in the end.

    Sounds crappy to me. Like an accident. I dont feel like an accident. But I guess we'll see.
     
  3. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    /what happens at our demise doesn't really matter. What DOES matter is how we live our lives while we have them. It matters for evolution, it matters to maintain constructive social structures. and civility. The life we have is what we know for certain and how we live it does matter. If we feel ok with ourselves and live by "do no harm".....but enjoy every aspect of life we are able to......that matters. IF we can contribute to improve the life on this planet , and do so, that matters. What happens after we depart will take care of itself at that time.
     
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  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I had asked once if one could be happy in heaven knowing their loved ones were in hell.... they said that God wipes your bad memories so you are happy.... sounds like brainwashing - you forget your loved ones cause them being in hell would make you unhappy?

    yep, I think if that was how it was preached, only bad people go to hell, not non-believers, it would sell better
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  5. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    One must first have an open mind in order to change it.
     
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  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When Jesus was crucified, He was 'dead' for three days. During those three days, He 'went to preach to the imprissonned.' There is much speculation as to what this means, but given He was dead at the time, it seems reasonable to conclude he was preaching to other dead, such as those imprisonned in purgatory or hell. It suggests that one mustn't necessarily be a 'believer' before death, one may instead be shown the truth after death by Jesus Himself and make a more informed decision then. But that would suggest that salvation isnt the main point of Christianity like many Christians are certain that it is, so its not a very popular or well known theory.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  7. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I can say as much for many Christians.
     
  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    No way to change your mind.

    God created all things. Good and evil.

    According to the story of god, it is onmiscient.
    Therefore, it knows what is going to happen from beginning until the end.
    Sin was known before sin was created.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Purgatory doesn't exist.
    That's a RC concept made up to extract money from living catholics of a deceased loved one.
     
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  10. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Sin is more than just the absence of god.
    I could argue those absent of god can't sin. Because they don't believe the concept even exists. It is a Abraham of god concept.

    And it's a lot more than absence of god.

    ...
    Judaism regards the violation of any of the 613 commandments as a sin. Judaism teaches that to sin is a part of life, since there is no perfect human and everyone has an inclination to do evil "from youth", though people are born sinless.[1] Sin has many classifications and degrees.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_sin
     
  11. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Where do the descriptions of hell take place?
    Certainly not the bible.
     
  12. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are discussing from Judeo-Christian POV since the thread title is "did God create sin". God created the law, and sin is an infraction of that law.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  13. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Yeah it wasn't purgatory it was hell that's just where you went when you died before Christ. That's actually what salvation is all about.

    I find the concept of purgatory to be abusive. The wages of sin is death. So you paid your wages when you die.

    It's like the concept of venial sin and mortal sin. This is crap made up by various religious groups. There is nothing in the Bible that says anything about this nothing in any other text either outside of those texts written by religious groups.

    Upon death you face judgment and the judgment is the reflection on how you judged others in life.
     
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    There are 3 main religions all claiming the same god. The god of Abraham.
    So it includes christian, muslim and Judaism.

    And I provided what the Judaism considers sin. They are the original religion derived straight out of Abraham.
     
  15. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jews and Christians do not consider muslim god the same as theirs

    Mosaic law is what it is.

    Sin is a violation of God's law. Jews have added some of their own, and they can call it 'God's law' if they want, although lot of the things they have added deal with minor disputes between Jews, which is why they have Jewish courts.
     
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Matters not what they believe.

    All 3 are derived from the god of abraham. There's no denying that.
    Every religion derived from abraham started with Judaism as the start point. That's why the bible OT is mostly from Judaism original texts.
    All 3 have the same creation story.
     
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  17. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Islam is derived from Mohammed, and they certainly do not worship the Christian God, and yes, it matters.
     
  18. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Man defines what is sinful, attributing it to the will of whichever god is currently being used, to give it gravitas.
    Change my mind.
     
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  19. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    In the context of a creation deity, there can be no default. The deity decides what the default is when They create it. The dark did not exist until God created it along with light. When God created everything, He just as easily could have made the light default and said, "Let there be Dark!"

    That is a direct contradiction to your claim of:

    The absence of God does not require action on my part.

    You can't deprive someone of something that doesn't exist. Like all other things, God had to create it. Remember that He created EVERYTHING! Or are you claiming that there were things in existence before he created the universe?

    Sin entered the world the moment that God created His law. The first sin, however, was not committed until later. But the sin had to exist before it could be committed.

    Do you really have that little faith in His creative ability that our conscience would not go on were He to "go out"? I certainly have more faith in His designs than that.
     
  20. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    In my OP I did note that I was specifically addressing actual sins as defined by God, as opposed to any claim by man as to what is a sin. At this point all I have presented is the overview and I have personally avoided any claims as to whether any specific thing is or is not a sin.
     
  21. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I just occurred to me that Valhalla sounds like an SCA battle, or those Civil War reenactments.
     
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  22. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    The concept of hell wasn't derived until Revelation. And even then it was not a place of eternal torment, but of a final death of the soul, and one only goes there after all the events of the Book. It wasn't until Dante's Inferno that we got our modern concept of Hell. And for that matter, no one actually achieves Heaven until after those events. And even of those who enter into eternal life, only a select few go to Heaven. The rest remains on the New Earth.

    As to the preaching to the dead, the most common thought on the matter is that since they never got to have access to Jesus prior to his arrival on Earth, he went to Sheol to give them all a chance to be able to have a chance at either the New Earth or the New Heaven. However, I agree with you. Since even in this modern era, there is a chance that an individual might never hear of Jesus, or get a real chance to hear his teachings, no actual loving God would allow them to not have a chance to join Him.
     
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  23. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    And by that logic, Adam and Eve were known before they were created, but they still had to be created.
     
  24. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Faulty logic. And I point to the "sovereign citizens" as a prime example. They don't believe in the concepts of certain laws applying to them. As such they still violate the law even when they don't believe in it. Likewise a person can sin even if they do not believe in the deity that defined that sin. Mind you that is not an argument to claim that any given deity does or does not exist. I only point out the flaw in the logic of the argument itself.
     
  25. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Much the same can be said of Jews with regards to Christians. Since Jews (religion) do not believe that Jesus was the Christ, it can just as easily be claimed that the Christian God is not the Jewish God since the Jewish God has not yet sent the Messiah.
     

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