Gun Control needs to be instituted

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Lucky1knows, Jan 24, 2023.

  1. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    there is no room to compromise with a movement that is based on a whopping lie as to its ultimate goals and motivations. The gun control movement's goal is to increasingly restrict lawful gun ownership, and only pretends that reducing gun violence is their main objective
     
  2. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    your arguments prove my point. any gun banner who says they want to ban AR 15 rifles and NOT Handguns is not being truthful that saving lives is their main motivation. It's impossible to claim that a weapon that is used in 1/75th as many killings as handguns should be banned first if saving lives is the true goal.
     
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    2200 over 16 years = 129 per year.
    Why do you think this number is greater than the number of firearm-related violent crimes committed by people who cannot legally own a firearm -- that is, by criminals?
     
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  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    at least 80% of all gunshot murders are perpetrated by felons or those who have been engaged in felonious activity as a juvenile
     
  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    And, for those who do not believe concealed carry is common:

    For every American with a CCW permit, there are two black Americans.
     
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  6. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    I only throw facts away when they are not relevant to whatever is being discussed.

    I also disregard falsehoods, but disregarding a falsehood does not count as disregarding a fact.


    That is not a case of disregarding facts. That is a case of disregarding falsehoods.


    Here you go:
    https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between


    No. The only facts that I accept are those that are actually facts.


    That is incorrect. Facts are very important to me.


    That is incorrect. I base my ideas on facts and logic.
     
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  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for proving my point.
     
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    Why isn't that the case in Russia, Argentina, Peru, the Philippines and the 60+ other countries with much stricter gun laws / bans and higher homicide rates than the US?

    If stricter gun laws really lowered homicide rates, they would be lower than the US everywhere, not just in countries that have more comprehensive mental health systems.

    Re:
    Except for stupidity, hate, racism and lack of empathy are precisely the things that any competent mental health professional works to reverse. It's just a matter of time before a person full of hate, racism and selfishness becomes a statistic if left untreated.

    Re:
    While the Biden administration has been severely detrimental to the US, there is still hope.
    I am uncomfortable with labels such as "developed" countries because it implies that the "undeveloped" countries have more primitive residents.

    As far as "stupidity" goes, I highly recommend watching the movie "Idiocracy".

    Enjoy,
     
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  9. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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    I am going to give you a piece of friendly advice. If you want to have anyone respect what you say, you better know everything about what you are saying and doing. Every person in the world has an opinion and they believe what they believe. This means that you are no different to the masses. It is the people that truly are looking for what is real, what is fact, and is looking for solutions (not just to be heard) that truly research their point of view. Those are the ones that truly have the ability to find solutions to problems that face us.

    HANDWAVING FREAKOUTERY a data source????? Hilarious to the Nth degree. You have just made my day. I have laughed til tears came out of my eyes.

    On a serious note: I HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR YOU! I will not respond to any of your posts ever again, or at least not until you gain the ability to truly search for knowledge and facts, and I do not mean YOUR FACTS!
     
  10. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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  11. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    the RW equates guns with freedom, freedom for those who are culturally like themselves
     
  12. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about national, but in general up to this point in your post your proposals might find favor with gun owners if not for the fact that the left keeps trying to violate their civil liberties.

    There is no need for NICS at the point of sale with a FOID card. The NICS would be done when the card was issued or reissued.


    It also interferes with legitimate gun purchases, so no.


    Lacks justification, so no.


    Impedes self defense, so no.


    The left has already made such insurance hard to get, so no.


    Freedom is not imaginary.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2023
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  13. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don' know many gun owners (and I suspect I know many times more than you do) who are against people who don't look like them or think like them owning guns. I have seen very conservative owners of gun shops cater to lesbian couples, gays, minorities. After all it is in the best interest of our gun owners to have as many additional lawful gun owners. It is the anti gun crowd that has engaged in a cultural war and they use gun control schemes as a weapon.
     
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  14. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    pretty soon you won't have anyone to argue with. I bet he is all broken up
     
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  15. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    my reference was to the RW, not specifically gun owners...duhhhh
     
  16. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    most gun rights advocates are RW. anyone who makes gun rights their main voting issue is almost always RW. It is akin to abortion on the other side Most of my female cousins, in laws etc vote GOP on most races where abortion is not in play but when it is for president most voted for Biden and before him Hilary for that reason
     
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  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    The following source lists the 60+ countries that have much stricter gun laws and higher homicide rates:

    "Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) - Country Ranking"
    https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

    The source you listed is outdated (2007) and the term "gun crime" is so vague as to be meaningless.

    The phrase: "... it is #1 in gun crime in the world." is too vague, false and disingenuous because it omits the fact that the US is one of the most populous nations in the world and with over 330 million people, naturally has more of everything than those smaller, less populous countries.


    Re:
    I think you'll have to admit that the field of psychology has advanced significantly in 200 years and, yes, I've seen people change from acting on malevolent impulses so I still think that upgrading America's mental health system would do more to lessen both homicides and suicides while new gun restrictions will be ignored by criminals just as frequently as the existing ones.

    Since we both seem to be repeating ourselves, I think that we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

    If people can't find a gun to kill others, they'll simply resort to deadlier crude WMDs like the 2 examples I gave (1), (2)

    I think that it is noteworthy that in both cases the "assault weapon" was a simple but crude WMD that killed more people than any firearm of any type.

    Thanks,



    (1) "Happy Land fire"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

    EXCERPT "González went to an Amoco gas station, then returned to the establishment with a plastic container with $1 worth of gasoline.[2][4] He spread the fuel at the base of a staircase, the only access into the club, and then ignited the gasoline.[5]

    Eighty-seven people died in the resulting fire."CONTINUED


    (2) "The 1927 Bombing That Remains America’s Deadliest School Massacre"

    "Ninety years ago, a school in Bath, Michigan was rigged with explosives in a brutal act that stunned the town"

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...chool-massacre-180963355/#KSipwm4IUrIbB9uc.99

    EXCERPTS "In the end 44 people died, 38 of them students. It wasn’t the first bombing in the country’s history—at least eight were killed during the Haymarket Square rally in Chicago in 1886, and 30 when a bomb exploded in Manhattan in 1920. But none had been so deadly as this, or affected so many children."CONTINUED
     
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  18. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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  19. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Freedom is, ultimately, secured by force, or the credible threat thereof.
    If you cannot secure you freedoms, you are a whim away from losing them.
    Thus, the 2nd Amendment.
    Unsupportable nonsense.
     
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  20. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    that is believable, i was raised in a suburban community and never had much interest in guns one way or another
     
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  21. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    So why do you compromise with them then?
     
  22. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    oh do tell what you are talking about
     
  23. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    True or false, you voted for a man who instituted the most sweeping gun control we've had since the national assault weapons ban.
    True or false, you consistently buy in to narratives spun by the other side avoiding the simple conception that a weapon the use of which constitutes per se use of deadly force is for killing not for 'stopping'.
    I'm sure we could go on.
     
  24. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    True or false-you threw your vote away and sit back and pretend you are above the fray and you are pure

    true or false-the three Trump justices ruled correctly in BRUEN while all the Democrat appointees ruled the wrong way

    As an expert (yeah I am) on the laws of self defense-the proper use of a weapon is to STOP an attacker not to kill an attacker. Having SHOT SOMEONE I know damn well the law and having defended several police officers who SHOT people I know this area of the law far better than just about anyone on this board.

    True or FALSE if HILARY had been president during the Las Vegas Massacre, she would have done at least as much as Trump had done and most likely worse. Plus she would have put Merrick Garland and other gun haters on the court
     
  25. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The Constitution was designed to have a process to change it and we have done so over the years.
     

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