Hiding Earth’s Warm Past

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Sunsettommy, Sep 15, 2022.

  1. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Post one differs with you.

    Try addressing it instead of your trolling.
     
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    No conspiracy is alleged.
     
  3. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Yes, cause real science, peer review and all is a conspiracy in your world, right?
     
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  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    New Study: Roman And Medieval Warm Periods Were 2.8°C Warmer Than 1970-2000 In Central China
    By Kenneth Richard on 13. March 2023

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    A series of paleoclimate lake reconstructions across China in recent years have failed to support the global-scale warming narrative.
    Per a new lake temperature reconstruction (Li et al., 2023) from Central China, there were distinct “warm intervals during the RWP [Roman Warm Period] (403–413 CE), with a temperature 2.89°C higher than that of the mean for 1970–2000 CE, and during the MWP [Medieval Warm Period] (864–882 and 965–994 CE), when the temperature was 2.81°C higher.”

    There are 8 other lake sediment reconstructions from the region (Qinghai, Gahai, Sugan, Kusai, Tiancai, Heiahi, Lugu, Cuoqia) documented in the study. None of the 8 are shown to have a modern temperature uptick that would support the claims of an unusually warm modern climate relative to past millennia.

    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Li et al., 2023
     
  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Tree Taxa Affirm A Much Warmer Alpine Climate Than Today For Nearly All Of The Last 10,000 Years
    By Kenneth Richard on 16. March 2023

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    “Chironomid‐based temperature reconstructions in the central eastern Alps showed…between ca. 10 000 and 8600 cal a BP…a thermal maximum of up to 4.5°C higher temperatures than present” – Caf et al., 2023

    With the exception of a century or two during the Little Ice Age (~1500-1900 CE), the European Alps have had a much higher concentration of beech (Fagus) and spruce (Picea) forest presence than today for nearly all of the last 10,000 years (Caf et al., 2023).

    The much more heavily vegetated and forested area – which coincides with a warmer climate – can be clearly observed in the reconstructions of Holocene tree and shrub presence.

    In the images below, notice how much greater the Alpine forest coverage was during the Medieval Warm Period (~600 to 1000 CE) and the 8 to 10 millennia preceding it.

    Even during the last 400-500 years, encompassing the Little Ice Age, there were as-warm or warmer periods than today.

    So, once again, we have another study affirming the modern climate is not only not unusually warm, but actually we are currently living in one the coldest climatic periods since the end of the last glacial.

    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Caf et al., 2023
     
  6. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And none of it shows antything new. Were you all really unaware of how the past had warmer spells? Rest assured that none of the rational people were unaware.

    The peer-reviewed evidence that you didn't post would be that showing the human origin of the current fast warming. So what's the point of this thread? It looks to me like deception is the point, that you're trying to claim that since climate warmed naturally in the past, it must be warming naturally now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2023
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  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    And?

    No credible scientist has ever denied that there were warmer periods during Earth's history - it was never "hidden".
    The difference is the RATE of the warming AND that there are now 4 billion people living in areas that would
    be impacted negatively by rising sea waters. Ain't rocket science, dude.
     
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  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yerrrrs! And if you looked even the IPCC reports include past warming
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The conspiracy comes from the ridiculously hilarious claim that somehow this research has been hidden/ignored when in fact it forms part of the IPCC reports
     
  10. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    LOL, Sea level rise problems is minor, and it was actually higher than now a few hundred years ago.

    The RATE of warming has been in decline for nearly 30 years now and it was significantly warmer then than now with a long term cooling trend of the last 3,000 plus years and it was much warmer 8,000 years ago at far lower CO2 levels in the atmosphere......

    [​IMG]

    It has been COOLING since 2016........

    The GISP2 ice shows no relationship between CO2 and temperature changes which warmist/alarmists ignores all the time because it is so gosh darned inconvenient!!!

    You need to catch up, dude.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
  11. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Another non counter point reply. :lol:

    Hiding Earth’s Warm Past is the title.

    Post one article remains unchallenged and unaddressed.

    Jacks science papers posted also unaddressed and ignored, must be the information in them you can't handle as it is poison to the stupid CO2 is the driver paradigm.

    Today's temperature is still cooler than it was during the Holocene optimism thus your fearmongering ethos is childish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And here's the crux of the matter, "the human origin of the current fast warming" has yet to be demonstrated.
     
  13. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please address the topic, instead of working so hard at evasions. Oh wait, you _can't_ address the topic. I debunked it that completely. That's why you're evading.

    Using the "Climate warmed naturally in the past, so climate must be warming naturally now" line of reasoning -- which is what this thread is attempting to do -- is really awful logic.

    It's every bit as dumb as saying "Forest fires were always natural in the past, so humans can't cause forest fires". Yet every denier still embraces that line of reasoning.

    And to think they actually expect to be taken seriously.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
  14. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The surface oceans are now the warmest they've ever been in the historical record. And that's while they're still in a cooler ENSO phase, coming off of a La Nina.

    Declaring that there's no fast warming is delusional.

    https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/
     
  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, no. It is the obligation of those who claim current warming is somehow different to provide evidence for their claim.
     
  16. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And yet no demonstration of human origin.
     
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  17. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And they have, over and over.

    You denying reality doesn't change reality.

    Good of you to admit that your "There's been no warming" line is nonsense. I'm glad we settled that. Please proceed to backpedal.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    On the contrary, I have a thread based on the premise there was warming until 2016, but then the global temperature trend turned to cooling.
    Still no demonstration of human origin for that period of warming.
     
  19. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    LOLOLOLOL!!!

    I am the one who STARTED this thread on something you have yet to address, you haven't addressed the CONTENT of post one article at all.

    Oh, by the way still no counterpoints from you and still avoiding all those published science papers Jack posted.

    What are you afraid of?
     
  20. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure I did. I pointed out nobody denied earth had warm spells in the past, so that your links are red herrings. What you're doing is like linking to pieces of how the earth is round, and then claiming it proves your point about something unrelated. The links are correct, they just don't mean anything.

    I do get it. I pointed out how awful your "The present must behave exactly like the past, even if the situation is different!" logic is, so you're angry, and you've gone into troll-and-evade mode.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
  21. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what's the end game for your deception here? You have to know that the upcoming El Nino will annihilate your bad propaganda. Are you planning to just vanish?
     
  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I doubt the El Nino will have much effect. We shall see.
     
  23. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Still zero counterpoints produced you know what they are Mamooth?
     
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  24. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    They are predicting a long Neutral phase and a weak El-Nino this year but that can change.
     
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  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Earth’s Mean Annual Temperature Was Warmer 31,000 Years Ago…The North Pole 22°C Warmer
    By Kenneth Richard on 17. April 2023

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    Yet another scientific analysis reports Earth’s average annual temperature fluctuates by as much as 35°C (at high latitudes) from one millennial-scale period to the next. CO2 is not mentioned as a factor affecting Earth’s climate variations.
    A recently-published 2-part study (Smul′skii, 2022a and 2022b) utilizes established orbital and insolation data to calculate Earth’s average temperature today (0 k years ago), 14.4°C, and at 25°N, 45°N, 65°N, 80°N, 0°, -25°S, -45°S, -65°S, and -80°S during 3 paleo epochs: 15.9 k years ago, 31.3 k years ago, and 46.4 k years ago.

    Global annual temperature of Earth: 14.4°C – the same as a century ago

    Consistent with dozens of other calculations, Smul′skii (2022a) determined the mean annual temperature of the modern period, which includes 1991-2018, ranges between 14.07 and 14.41°C.

    [​IMG]

    This calculation is similar to what Jones et al. determined as Earth’s temperature in a 1999 study: 14.0°C.

    . . . .
     
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